Legalism is false doctrine !

Antinomianism and Salvation. ^ | August 2010 | Gart O'Toole

[Benchim]

There are millions of church going believers who really are confused and conflicted on central issues of the faith. Issue 1: Are you really saved? You may say "Yes" but you may not be sure because of the legal requirements of the group you joined. Issue 2: When do I receive my salvation? When I believe or when I die after a trial to determine if I did all the right things like baptism, repentance ,lived in obedience, confession , "born again", absolution from the priesthood,tithed,lived sinless and on and on. Did you observe the sabath? was your "church" attendance acceptable to God? By the way, you did not do this guilt trip on your own. You were constantly "coached" into these ambiguities by the institutional "Church" to better control their flock and to extract attendance and money.

[Elsie]

Mt 25:34

It’s rather presumptuous for some to call things legalism which are spelled out in Scripture.

When does one know if they've 'done enough'?

[Elsie]

I eagerly await the reformation thesis entitled sola gratia.

Why?

Isn't SCRIPTURE clear enough to understand?

[Just mythoughts]

Apparently, this is what Dispensationalism teaches. It is a twisted theology (albeit not as evil as the Supercessionism of the Catholic Church, or the Reformed movement). Ironically, both Supercessionism and Dispensationalism lay the guilt on the Jews of the "Old Testament" for not faithfully following the "Law of Moses" - but then in the "New Testament" claim that it is not operable. What arrogance! They have to play disjointed hermeneutical games to create a systematic theology - that cannot treat the Bible as a unified whole, able to be read literally. No wonder Jews shake their heads at these theological contortions. There are many difficult things to understand in Scripture. Obedience is not one of them. It is clearly, and plainly spoken of by the mouth of the Almighty.

I think you have gone into overdrive theology. Now do you have scoped out where you will go to buy 'oil' when your light goes dark?????????????????

[Zuriel]

The thief was under the Law. Jesus had earlier commanded the leper “to go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testamony unto them”. Matt. 8:4 The thief was condemned to death and could only repent to the ‘great high priest’ himself.

Regardless of the CoC position on the repentant thief, the Word says that a “testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength AT ALL while the testator LIVETH.” Heb. 9:17 This ‘new and living way’ began when the Holy Ghost was initially poured out.

[Zuriel]

**This controversy is one of the many inconsistencies that eventually leads honest Protestants back to the Rock that is Rome.**

INCONSISTENCIES?? Your church doesn’t take a backseat to anyone in that category.
Another classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.

[mitch5501]

"Do you rejoice with the truth that he who believes in Jesus HAS eternal life -- not just WILL have -- but has it NOW?"

You betcha!!!

"These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God"(1 John 5:13)

I believe knowing you're saved is essential to doing the work of God.(John 6:29)

The one vital difference between God's truth and ANY cult is the fact that salvation is the first thing settled.With any cult it is the last.It's the clearest definition of a cult I've ever come across.

[mas cerveza por favor]

Remember your history when the only accepted books of the NT were the four Gospels, Acts, Paul’s letters (except Hebrews),1Peter, 1 John.

??? Which history was this? I have learned that the NT canon was gradually shorn of apocrypha, not made larger.

Precisely what parts of James’ writing to the Jews negate Paul’s letters to the Gentiles?

None. What are you saying? James' teaching only applies to Jewish Christians and not to Greeks? Neither? Both?

[mas cerveza por favor]

INCONSISTENCIES?? Your church doesn’t take a backseat to anyone in that category. Another classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.

What inconsistencies?

[Nosterrex]

James is one of the disputed books of the New Testament, and it was not accepted by the ancient church. It is rejected for three main reasons: First, it was not written by an apostle. Second, it is inconsistent with teachings of St. Paul. Third, the author never mentions Christ, the Atonement, or Resurrection, which is the heart of Christianity. There are those that see a hidden Christology in James, but it is basically a law book. One of my favorite professors wrote a defense of James with the view that there is a hidden Christology in it, but if there is one, it is well hidden. I like the anointing of the sick that is mentioned, and that may well be something worth keeping.

[mas cerveza por favor]

James is one of the disputed books of the New Testament, and it was not accepted by the ancient church. It is rejected for three main reasons: First, it was not written by an apostle. Second, it is inconsistent with teachings of St. Paul.

Nothing here but boldly unsupported assertions.

Third, the author never mentions Christ

Wrong:

"James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ..." (James 1:1)

"My brethren, hold not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons." (James 2:1)
(In other words, do not hold the faith with favoritism for one person over another.)

[Campion]

From the day Paul wrote his letters they were used as the main guide in doctrine and considered sacred scripture.

Actually it was the 4 canonical gospels that were considered "the main guide in doctrine". Everything Paul wrote was subject to them, as he himself would tell you first. Both the 4 gospels and the Pauline letters were considered canonical from very early times.

Incidentally, where something is placed in your Bible doesn't have much to do with its status or the degree to which you should heed it. The order of the books is not divinely inspired.

Again, James’ letter was to THE TWELVE TRIBES OF ISRAEL, not the Gentile believers.

I think you're not quite understanding something.

The ten tribes in the north of Israel were conquered by Assyria in 722 BC. Those tribes were dispersed and forcibly intermarried among the Gentiles. They were lost as individual national units, hence the term "Lost Tribes of Israel". The whole messianic promise was that those tribes would be reunited back into the one people of God.

But how is that even possible, when they are intermingled with Gentile nations? Precisely by bringing the Gentiles into the covenant, that's how!

So saying James is writing to "the twelve tribes of Israel, not to Gentile believers" is nonsense. Ten of those twelve tribes were Gentile believers (if they were to be believers at all), so for him to address his letter to "the twelve tribes in the diaspora" is precisely the same as addressing his letter to the whole church of God.

This isn't a work of Jewish homiletics, and it isn't teaching the Mosaic law in opposition to Paul's teaching of salvation by grace through faith. The bishops in AD 400 knew exactly what they were doing, and put it in the Bible for a reason.

And no, it doesn't contradict Paul. Not if you understand Paul correctly, and James as well.

[Campion]

Third, the author never mentions Christ

This is simply false.

James 1:1 - James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ

James 2:2 - My brethren, do not hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with partiality.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***None. What are you saying? James’ teaching only applies to Jewish Christians and not to Greeks? Neither? Both?****

Are CHRISTIANS today required to do what James told Paul to do? If not, WHY NOT!
And since James’ letter was specificly written to “The Twelve Tribes scattered abroad” what part of IT carries more weight than what PAUL said?

Gal 2:2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles, but privately to them which were of reputation, lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain.

Gal 2:3 But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised:

Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

Gal 2:5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Gal 2:6 But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man’s person:) for they who seemed [to be somewhat] in conference added nothing to me:

Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as [the gospel] of the circumcision [was] unto Peter;

Gal 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)

Gal 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

***

Act 21:23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;

Act 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave [their] heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but [that] thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.

If Saint Paul won Christian Liberty from the requirements of the Jewish law for the Gentiles, and JAMES still required that law for Jewish Christians, Paul negates all James had to say about WORKS FOR SALVATION!

Gal 2:11 ¶ But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from JAMES, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

Gal 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.

Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the TRUTH OF THE GOSPEL, I said unto Peter before [them] all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Gal 2:15 We [who are] Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, [is] therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

Gal 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***The ten tribes in the north of Israel were conquered by Assyria in 722 BC. Those tribes were dispersed and forcibly intermarried among the Gentiles. They were lost as individual national units, hence the term “Lost Tribes of Israel”. ****

There were still enough of Israel who returned to Jerusalem that sacrifices were offered for ALL OF THE TRIBES.

Ezr 6:16 And the children of Israel, the priests, and the Levites, and the rest of the children of the captivity, kept the dedication of this house of God with joy,

Ezr 6:17 And offered at the dedication of this house of God an hundred bullocks, two hundred rams, four hundred lambs; and for a sin offering for all Israel, twelve he goats, according to the number of the tribes of Israel.

Ezr 8:35 [Also] the children of those that had been carried away, which were come out of the captivity, offered burnt offerings unto the God of Israel, twelve bullocks for all Israel, ninety and six rams, seventy and seven lambs, twelve he goats [for] a sin offering: all [this was] a burnt offering unto the LORD.

Plus we have the mention in the NT of Anna of the tribe of ASHER..

So not all came back to Israel but enough did to be considered Twelve Tribes, even though most were still in Persia.

[Benchim]

Please list for us “His commands”. Do not leave any out so we won’t fall from grace.

[mas cerveza por favor]

Are CHRISTIANS today required to do what James told Paul to do? If not, WHY NOT! And since James’ letter was specificly written to “The Twelve Tribes scattered abroad” what part of IT carries more weight than what PAUL said?

The epistles of Sts. Paul and James are never in conflict and equally inspired and authoritative for all Christians today. Any detection of conflict between these Apostles is entirely the result of misinterpretation. The Holy Spirit, who inspires all Sacred Scripture, is not in conflict with Himself.

[1010RD]

You’re on to something. ;-]

[1010RD]

You are exactly correct. How does G-d love and devote himself to his chosen training them to be obedient to his Law only to return as the Messiah and condemn them for their obedience?

Jesus Christ rails not against the Law, but against hypocrisy a disease many suffer from even in our modern age.

Your insight into the fulfillment of the Law and prophets is spot on. Which of the Ten Commandments does Jesus now allow through his sacrifice?

Well done and keep the faith.

Shalom.

[1010RD]

Excellent good, Campion.

Where exactly would James post his letter to the 12 Tribes?

Which city or country does he messenger it to?

[Benchim]

I appreciate the encouragement. I am devoted to the Gospel of Christ and it has been distorted to extract followship — not fellowship. They want money in the name of God to pay their house mortgages and car payments. It is time to bench’em.