Posted on 11/05/2010 6:32:25 PM PDT by Colofornian
LDS Prophet Joseph Smith taught that God was once a mortal man:
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens! That is the great secret. ...I am going to tell you how God came to be God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea, and take away the veil,...
It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God, ...and that He was once a man like us; yea, that God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ Himself did; ...you have got to learn how to be gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all gods have done before you, namely, by going from one small degree to another,... from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings. and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power" (History of the Church, Vol. 6, Ch. 14, p. 305-6).
LDS President Brigham Young declared that God was once a finite being:
"It appears ridiculous to the world, under their darkened and erroneous traditions, that God has once been a finite being" (Deseret News, Nov. 16, 1859, p. 290).
LDS President Joseph Fielding Smith said that God had a father, a grandfather, etc.:
"Our father in heaven, according to the Prophet, had a father, and since there has been a condition of this kind through all eternity, each Father had a Father" (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:47).
LDS President Joseph F. Smith taught that God was born as a mortal on some other earth:
"I know that God is a being with body, parts and passions...Man was born of woman; Christ, the Savior, was born of woman; and God, the Father was born of woman" (Deseret News, Church News, Sept. 19, 1936, p. 2).
LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie taught:
"The Father is a glorified, perfected, resurrected, exalted man who worked out his salvation by obedience to the same laws he has given to us so that we may do the same" (A New Witness for the Articles of Faith, p. 64)
LDS Apostle Melvin Ballard explained that God has a wife:
"For as we have a Father in heaven, so also we have a Mother there, a glorified, exalted, ennobled Mother" (As quoted in Achieving a Celestial Marriage, LDS Church manual, 1976, p. 129).
LDS Doctrine and Covenants promises the faithful LDS couple that they can achieve godhood in the same manner as God the Father:
"...if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity,... they shall [have]...a continuation of the seeds [children] forever and ever. Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting,... Then shall they be gods, because they have all power,... and continuation of the lives,... [endless procreation of spirit children]" (Doctrine and Covenants Section 132:18-22)
LDS President Brigham Young taught that faithful Mormons can achieve godhood:
"Intelligent beings are organized to become Gods, even the Sons of God, to dwell in the presence of the Gods, and become associated with the highest intelligences that dwell in eternity. We are now in the school, and must practice upon what we receive" (Discourses of Brigham Young, p. 245).
LDS President Joseph F. Smith said:
"We are precisely in the same condition and under the same circumstances that God our heavenly Father was when he was passing through this, or a similar ordeal" (Gospel Doctrine, p. 54).
As recently as 2007 both Apostle Boyd K. Packer and Dallen Oakes, during an interview for PBS, explained that God the father has a resurrected body. Apostle Packer stated:
"That vision [Joseph Smith's 1820 vision] taught us some things. We learned about the personality of God the Father, a resurrected Being, as part of our gospel." [link]
Apostle Oakes used the same term when he was interviewed:
"The first revelation received by Joseph Smith was the appearance to him of the Father and the Son embodied, separate, identifiable, tangible Beings who appeared to him in what we refer to as the First Vision. And that first revelation, concerning the nature of God as an embodied, glorified, resurrected Being, challenged the creeds of Christianity. Christianity describes God as a disembodied, incomprehensible, spiritual entity that fills the whole universe, and an indistinguishable Father and Son." [link]
LDS Apostle James E. Talmage taught that God progressed from a mortal to a god:
"We believe in a God who is Himself progressive, whose majesty is intelligence; whose perfection consists in eternal advancement — a Being who has attained His exalted state by a path which now His children are permitted to follow, whose glory it is their heritage to share. In spite of the opposition of the sects, in the face of direct charges of blasphemy, the Church proclaims the eternal truth: 'As man is, God once was; as God is, man may be'" (Articles of Faith, Ch. 24, p. 430-431).
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What the Bible Says About God
1. ALWAYS GOD - in the past as well as in the future.
"Art thou not from ever-lasting, O Lord my God, mine Holy One?" Hab. 1:12
"For I am the Lord, I change not." Mal. 3:6
"...from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God." Psa. 90:2
"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent." Num. 23:19
"Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,...who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever." Rom. 1:22-25
The LDS god started as a finite man and progressed to godhood.
2. ALWAYS HOLY - Both in the past and future.
"...a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he." Deut. 32:4
"I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee." Hos. 11:9
"The Lord is righteous in all his ways and holy in all his works." Psa. 145:17
"God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." 1 John 1:5
"Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness." Psa. 119:142
The LDS god achieved holiness.
3. ALL KNOWING - Both in the past and in the future.
"Who hath directed the Spirit of the Lord, or being his counsellor hath taught him? With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding? ... There is no searching of his understanding." Isa. 40:13, 14, 28
"Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite." Psa. 147:5
The LDS god had to learn everything.
4. ALL POWERFUL
"The Lord God omnipotent reigneth." Rev. 19:6
"...his eternal power and Godhead." Rom. 1:20
The LDS god attained his power.
5. OMNIPRESENT
"The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool; where is the house that ye build unto me: and where is the place of my rest?" Isa. 66:1
"Am I a God at hand, saith the Lord, and not a God afar off? Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the Lord." Jer. 23:23-24
The LDS god can be in only one place at a time.
6. ACTED ALONE IN CREATION
"I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone, that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself." Isa. 44:24
"By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth." Psa. 33:6
"Thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all." Neh. 9:6
The LDS god cooperated with the Council of Gods to create.
7. NO OTHER GODS
"I am he; before me there was no God formed neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour." Isa. 43:10-11
"I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God....is there a God beside me; yea, there is no God; I know not any." Isa. 44:6 & 8
"To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?...for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me." Isa. 46:5 & 9
"I am the Lord; that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another." Isa. 42:8
The LDS God has a father and mother, grandparents, brothers and sisters, etc.
For a more in-depth discussion of the LDS view of God and man:
Mormonism and the Threefold Problem of Progression: Examining the LDS Doctrine of Eternal Progression in Light of the Bible, Philosophy, and Science
Read John 5:19. “Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.”
Yes, MHG, 'tis good you highlighted that again...first note that little word "perfected"...IOW, Mormons don't believe their god was all-holy from all eternity past...he had to become "perfectED" (otherwise this lds so-called "apostle" would have used the word "perfect" -- not "perfected.")
THAT is the great slap in Jesus's face that Mormonism makes, because it at once relegates the Cross to an aside, and raises the sin of satan to a goal of devout Mormons
Bingo, MHG! Note that the cross for the Mormon only opens the door for all mankind, so that a few thousandths of 1% of the world's populated that's ever lived or will live will be able to live in God's presence forever! (The rest, per Mormonism, will be shut out!)
Whereas, Mormonism acclaims Adam & Eve's sin as this great thing to celebrate because it opened the door for Mormons to become gods...immortal!
How the forces of darkness laugh at this topsy-turvy theology! The cross is reduced to nothing in Mormonism; and sin -- the cause of original sin passed down to all from generation to generation -- is according to one current Lds "apostle" (Oaks) something to be "celebrated!" (Whoaa)
Mormonic crazies placemarker
One of the reasons why Mitt Romney is not electable as POTUS. He will never get the support of fundamentalist Christians in the South, all of whom regard Joseph Smith as a con man and Mormons as heretics. [strk321]
Note this comment from another past Lds general authority, B.H. Roberts, who was elected as one of the first Congressman from the new state of Utah in 1898...of course, as a Democrat:
”We offend again in our doctrine that men are of the same race with the divine personages we call Gods. Great stress is laid upon the idea that we believe that 'as man is, God once was, and as God now is, man may become.' The world usually shouts 'blasphemy' and 'sacrilege' at one when he talks of such a possibility” (B.H. Roberts, 1992, Defense of The Faith and The Saints 2:570)
So, here Roberts is...24 years after being turned away from Congress...stating that the Mormon Father-god is of the same "race" as men. Well, Roberts, wasn't turned away from Congress because of these kind of theological beliefs.
What happened in 1898 is a rare moment in U.S. grassroots history.
Minus the advent of multi-media pushed petitions, citizens took 28 banners all over this country and secured 7 million signatures.
Why? Because they didn't want B.H. Roberts seated in our Congress
And why not? Because B.H. Roberts had taken yet a third wife AFTER the Manifesto claiming that Mormons were starting to steer clear of polygamy.
You see, despite the propaganda by some to the contrary, Americans have long believed that what politicians do in their private lives does have some extension and overlap and carry-over to their public lives.
I mean...that's what the very meaning of the word integrity is...(integer = one whole #).
That's exactly what Bill Clinton failed to show in his POTUS life via his "relationship" with an intern.
We as a nation are better off living an integrated, wholistic life that's not divided according to who you want to portray one image to...only then to present a "second" face to somebody else.
Be true, America.
Be true, Mormons. (God knows your inside heart...He knows you can't wait for His grace to kick in AFTER all YOU can do...'cause it'll never be enough).
Come to the true Jesus for His grace & mercy & compassion & forgiveness...and live.
Are you sooo shy you can never actually have a specific target of your posts?
Will you now quickly retreat back into your private forested "webland" to post no more like your other quick hit-&-run forays into past threads?
“One of the reasons why Mitt Romney is not electable as POTUS. He will never get the support of fundamentalist Christians in the South...”
Ranked by importance, that would be about the 4,912th reason. Romney is so bad that even if he were a Mohammedan it wouldn’t matter - he’s that bad on the issues and that untrustworthy.
“One of the reasons why Mitt Romney is not electable as POTUS. He will never get the support of fundamentalist Christians in the South...”
Ranked by importance, that would be about the 4,912th reason. Romney is so bad that even if he were a Mohammedan it wouldn’t matter - he’s that bad on the issues and that untrustworthy.
The majority of Southern Christians are not of the ‘fundamentalist’ persuasion.
I don’t follow you here, maybe this is a typo? The south is the Bible belt, fundamentalist churches on every corner.
I hear that the sun rises in the morning.
There was a time that to criticize LDS beliefs was said by Mormons to be evidence of “persecution.” I haven’t heard that response recently. Possibly they realized that few were impressed by such a complaint.
I don’t believe I got an answer from you... Is your name Brian?
I had a study with two of their missionaries. "Elders," even though they were probably in their teens.
I was pointing out the flaws in the book of mormon and its contradictions to the Bible. One of the missionaries was very interested in what I was saying. Our time was up and we made another appointment for the following week.
The following week arrived and the "elder" who was asking me questions about the book of mormon, etc, wasn't there. It seems the mormons felt he needed some more indoctrination.
An absolutely dishonest and disreputable bunch of people.
No way would I waste my time, money, efforts toward electing slick willard. His candidacy = disaster in the making.
Oh no, they haven’t given up on that.
They’ve moved on to much more colorful descriptions of their critics since then in their attempts to “demonstrate” how “persecuted” they are.
See, as an ex-mo talking about the church, the experiences, the conflicts and contradictions I have/had with the LdS faith, I’m lower than low in a mormon’s eyes.
I’m an apostate doomed to outer darkness (mormon hell) guaranteed a fate that rivals that of your average satan worshipper. (According to mormon doctrine anyway, if you believe in that.)
This “doctrine” is the primary reason I left the LdS church.
Thankfully, with a lot of help from some folks here on FR, I have found the Jesus Christ of the Bible and I am grateful to God for giving me the wisdom to see the error of my ways.
July 27, 2010, born again, in Christ.
Or back to the holy wars?
I know, I know... we go back to burning people at the stake.
Or maybe that's not modern enough ... I know we can go back into those roots...back to the good ole days of the Ku Klux Klan
But if it's those pesky Mormons who we need to teach a lesson to... we could take America back to these "christian" roots.
Wait... I know... here's the "christianity" we should move toward.
Ya know, I think I'm going to call a pass on going back to your "christian" roots. But thanks for asking.
Do ya think Glenn needs some time out, to become better indoctrinated acquainted with the peculiarities of your founders belief in total apostasy?
Good point. Where has Mitt been to support the Tea Party? No where. That’s a pretty major strike against him.
Actually, during the 2008 primaries, the left attacked his religion to a far greater degree than any Christian group did. Bill Maher & Co. went around making all kinds of bad jokes about polygamy. C’mon guys, MR is a modern Mormon. He doesn’t do that.
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