In Christ Alone (Happy reformation day)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExnTlIM5QgE ^ | Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

[RnMomof7]

In Christ Alone lyrics

Songwriters: Getty, Julian Keith; Townend, Stuart Richard;

In Christ alone my hope is found He is my light, my strength, my song This Cornerstone, this solid ground Firm through the fiercest drought and storm

What heights of love, what depths of peace When fears are stilled, when strivings cease My Comforter, my All in All Here in the love of Christ I stand

In Christ alone, who took on flesh Fullness of God in helpless Babe This gift of love and righteousness Scorned by the ones He came to save

?Til on that cross as Jesus died The wrath of God was satisfied For every sin on Him was laid Here in the death of Christ I live, I live

There in the ground His body lay Light of the world by darkness slain Then bursting forth in glorious Day Up from the grave He rose again

And as He stands in victory Sin?s curse has lost its grip on me For I am His and He is mine Bought with the precious blood of Christ

[maryz]

If it looks like worship, etc., etc.

These comments remind of that song in Oklahoma! -- "Everything's up to Date in Kansas City." Do you recall the line, "They went and built a skyscraper seven stories high"? You're looking at a seven-story building (our veneration of Mary) and -- since you apparently have no concept of a building higher (your own "worship" I guess being no higher than seven stories) -- call it a skyscraper!

BTW, what happened to your new teeth you were so touchingly proud of? Too painful to wear? So sad, but maybe something can be done . . . ;-)

[Cronos]

Isa 14:12-17: correctly translates as “How art thou fallen from heaven, Oh Morning Star"

And is addressed to the king of Babylon (who was oppressing Israel at that time) -- note how it goes on to say in verse 22

22For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.

and then 25

25That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.

This " For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High" is what the king of Babylon (Nebuchadnessar and descendents) thought of themselves.

[Cronos]

Mark: That is not Judgement - why is it that you Bahble Believers (t) simply don't get it correct?

For Met's benefit -- there is a difference between the Bahble that some groups believe (which is made up of pure excerpts from the Bible) and the Bible itself which is read in it's entirety in context

[Cronos]

Oh Mark, that was a wonderful response:

We believe the Bible with the Faith that has been given to us from the Apostles. We don't believe the interpretations of the Bible from the rabble and the ruins of the Reformation, and we don't believe the interpretation that you happen to present to us today, as opposed to yesterday, or tomorrow.

[Cronos]

Met: changes it's collective mind on some issue, and declares it new doctrine and the old invalid.

Ahem, can you name any council where such happened as you state that there was a new doctrine that washed away the old?

[Cronos]

Well of course you didn't know that, because it's a made up story.

History of The Church -- from Apostolic times, let's say AD 33.

Read the Didache and you'll see the same descriptions of celebrations of Mass/Divine Liturgy. Read the history of the Eastern Orthodox, the Oriental Orthodox and the Assyrian Church and how they concur with the Western Church.

Islam -- founded in 680 AD in a place that is the cross-roads of orthodoxy-arianism, zoroastrianism, paganism (Arabic and Hindu).

Your statement of timelines is completely flawed.

[Cronos]

Well of course you didn't know that, because it's a made up story.

History of The Church -- from Apostolic times, let's say AD 33.

Read the Didache and you'll see the same descriptions of celebrations of Mass/Divine Liturgy. Read the history of the Eastern Orthodox, the Oriental Orthodox and the Assyrian Church and how they concur with the Western Church.

Islam -- founded in 680 AD in a place that is the cross-roads of orthodoxy-arianism, zoroastrianism, paganism (Arabic and Hindu).

Your statement of timelines is completely flawed.

Your further link from wikipedia again belies your reading as it say "was legalized in 313 " --> was legalized does not translate as "was founded". You do realise the difference, correct?

Before Constantine, Christianity was outlawed as we did not include worship of the Emperor. Legalised meant that we did not have to do that (note that the Roman Empire was pretty open when it came to religion -- do whatever you like but also worship the Emperor. CHristians and Jews were persecuted because they did not do this).

[Cronos]

I am truly amazed and repelled by this statement; it is very far from truth. I am a convert to the Catholic Faith and I was NEVER taught this, not as a catechuman, not from the pulpit from a priest, not in Confession, not by word of mouth.

The statement you have made here cannot be verified in the Catholic Catechism.

Of course it can't be verified, neither can met's other statements. They can't be verified because they do not exist in reality / verity.

The only purpose that met's meandering maltruths serve is to have:
1. More non-Catholics and lukewarm Catholics read and wonder why someone would lie so much and repeat so many untruths about The Church. They'll think "there MUST be something about The Church that makes so many spread such lies that are easily proved wrong" and learn more about The Church and come to Christ through His Church.
2. More reasonably well-read or even simple believing Catholics will wonder the same and learn more about their Faith. As I've noted on these threads, the number of CAtholic posters have increased as more and more presumably are like me (wondering why this hatred, learning more about The Church and it's eternal, Christ-given Truths, and becoming stronger Catholics)

So Met serves to get more Catholics back into or get deeper into Christ in His Church and get more non-Catholics to come to The Church

[Cronos]

Actually, goml replied saying that other tag wasn't him and pointing out that Cool Breeze is a common nickname

Not reading anything except what you want to read is a hallmark of OrthodPresbyterian Cultists. Why does your OPC cult keep you'll reading a 14-page color book containing excerpts from the Bible and writings by Gresham your profit?

Why does the OPC website feign being Christian, just like the www.lds.org website?

It wouldn't be so bad if Mormons and OPC cultists stopped trying to say they were Christians and everyone else is wrong. Why can't the OPC and LDS just be content calling themselves non-Christian religions like Hinduism or Sikhism?

[Cronos]

The Church shines in God's light, proclaiming God's Word as we have since Apostolic times and will continue to do so.

Christ's Church, the One holy Apostolic Catholic Church (Catholic, Orthodox, Oriental, Assyrian) with Jesus The Christ as The Head, proclaims His Word - just as HE designed it to do.

The RavingCalvinistCult with the man Calvin(you got the name wrong)as the head, teaches heresy. They oppose God's Word. The Raving Calvinists are known as the counterfeit church and all it's teachings/doctrines will be burnt to ash.

This is pretty apparent as you see the followers of Calvin disappating and their force being taken up by weirder groups like hte Mormons, OPC, JWs etc.

It must suck to be a follower of Calvin - going around putting out fires in an attempt to protect something that is already exposed. God's Word, the Lamp, the Light of the World exposed the falseness of the cult believers who prefer to keep their caste system.

[annalex]

So the "good news" according to Rome is,

Not only are we bound to the law

We are not bound to the Old Testament Law (Romans, Galatians) even though we are to obey laws that are just (Titus 3:1, Romans 13:1ff).

but we must also add good works

Yes, see Romans 2:6-10, Matthew 5-7, 25:31-46, Eph 2:5-10)

AND confess to a priest for forgiveness of sin

2 Corinthians 5:18, John 20:23, 1 John 1:9, Matthew 11:20, Luke 13:3, Acts 2:38.

recieve the Eucharist for a grace booster to maintain a "state of grace"

Luke 22:19, John 6:53(54). However, to maintain a state of grace you simply choose not to sin; it is when you lack strength to stay holy that you need the supernatural strength of the Holy Eucharist. Let me break for illustration:

St. Zosima brings the Eucharist to St. Mary of Egypt

In her youth St. Mary was "driven "by an insatiable and an irrepressible [sexual] passion". She went to see the Holy Land hoping to seduce the pilgrims along the way. She was, however, converted by the holy relics and the icon of Mary, repented and went to live as an ascetic in the desert. The icon shows St. Mary after years of penance "almost unrecognizable as human", encountering St. Zosima who, on her request, had brought her the Holy Communion. Following year she died. Mary of Egypt

AND pray to Mary and the saints to beg Jesus for mercy

It is a good idea but it does you no good if it is not spontaneous heartfelt prayer. It is not a requirement. Rather, prayer is a fruit of faith; as you leave the prison of Protestantism, your sanctification will commence and over time you will feel the need of prayer, and you will benefit from it.

AND assent to ALL dogma including recent Ex Cathedra statements AND (more importantely) submit to any and all future dictates from the Pope

See Acts 20:28. A Catholic is asked, to the measure of his ability, to learn the teaching from his bishop and the popes past and present, and if he is not able to give it assent, work on understanding the reasons for it and not teach against it. Blind obedience to the Magisterium is not required, but reasoned faith in its divine guidance is indeed a mark of a true Catholic.

I am not sure I see the "good" in this news.

The good is eternal life with Christ. Let him who has ears hear.

[annalex]

There are two types of firstborns in the Jewish law...

Yes. But neither is conferred upon the birth of a second born. One can be an only child and yet be legally firstborn, and have the benefits and duties of the fact.

[metmom]

You are angry at the "self-described saved of this era" because you think they (me) somehow think we have attained the perfection of ourselves that is required for the eternal beatific vision. Am I right?

You are exactly right. In my case, I wasn't saved until my early 20's and that's exactly what I thought of people who claimed they had assurance of salvation. I too believed it was based on works, and it came across as arrogant bragging. And that's the way it DOES come across to someone who thinks it's all based on works, even when they're not bragging.

I know what's in me and I know that I don't deserve heaven, just like everyone else on the planet. NOBODY deserves heaven.

The beauty of it is that we still get it not because of what we've done, but for what Jesus has done for us and offers as a free gift.

Jesus died in my place so that I can live through and for Him. His death is credited to my account since it's a debt I can't pay.

Since all it takes is breaking one law to be guilty of breaking them all, everyone on the planet is already condemned. Even if we could lead the rest of our lives perfect as Jesus, it wouldn't be enough. It's too late.

That's why it HAS to be not earned by works, but a gift for the taking.

[Mad Dawg]

diving=driving

Remind me never to go driving with you, not near water anyway ...

[metmom]

Well, I was raised Catholic and I found Catholicism to be just like that. God was to be FEARED because if you slipped up once before getting to confession, sucks to be you.

God as presented by the Catholic church is demanding and not quick to forgive.

[The Theophilus]

Islam began shortly after the Catholic church

I am fully aware of that, but thanks for the reminder.

I guess I might be one of those rare individuals who look at more than just labels. Labels have their purpose, and that is to distill and encapsulate an entity's or ideology's attributes into a simple title. That being said, their are many shared attributes between Rome and Islam, for that matter, there are many shared attributes between Rome and Pagan belief systems dating back to at least the days of Nimrod. We are very familiar with a number of these obvious syncretisms between Rome and Pagan idolatry, one of the best known is the Saturnalia born circus we call Christmas, which followed Halloween which was also borrowed from di/divi parentes which is Pagan Rome's ancestor worship which has also been institutionalized into Rome's Iconaltry.

I have read some interesting books that show point by point how Rome has heavily borrowed from Ba'al worship and the whole of the worship of Ishtar and Tammuz. The point being, is that Mohammad took many religions and their many gods and distilled them all down to one kooky works/faith religion that has a convoluted soteriology that involves lots of gray. I submit that Rome is really no different, in that it borrowed heavily from regional predominant religions and packed them into one religion that gives us a quirky path to salvation that involves sacraments, allegiance to a foreign king, purgatory, indulgences, prayers for dead, and a hodge podge of crap syncretized from what the vulgar were engaged in at the time.

This explains how Saturnalia became Christmas, and how burning the Yule log is supposed to bring good fortune. Because both Islam and Rome are consolidators of pagan religions, they have a common ancestor - Satan, and I propose that Satan has worked through the ages refining the tactic of making a Religion By Committee that has things that appeal to everyone.

If Rome was truly Christ centered in sound biblical theology, how on earth did this Maryolatry faction pop-up and maintain traction? Where did relic worship come from and why do we have over thirty foreskins of Jesus allegedly floating around? Its because Rome found out that it can claim greater authority, appeal and money by condoning these things while simultaneously butchering Jews and torturing Christians and Pagans alike who challenged the authority of Rome. See any correlation to Islam there?

Both systems arose from the ashes of fallen empires, the people were without tyrant rulers and they were disorganized in much of their lives. Rome filled the vacuum of the fallen Roman Empire, and she had ambitious plans to conquer the known world with a religious/political system starting with the Byzantine Empire. Mohammad consolidated the wildly volatile nomads and tribes under a powerful religious/political system that became through the stages of caliphates and dynasties became the Ottoman Empire. Like everything with Satanic origins, purges were required to remove the infidels and challengers to these juggernauts.

I picked up a copy of "Islam for Idiots" and after perusing the pages I come to find out that Muslims will believe damn near anything but kill whoever is in arm's reach if you don't swear to the authority of the Koran and a particular Imam's interpretation of its Traditions (yet a similar mechanism to Rome). Example: Evolution or Creation? Doesn't matter as long as you say that Mohammad knew the correct one (but didn't care to share).

Look at how the Romanists argue here. No different tactics than the Muslim. You bring up Scripture and they return with Tradition overriding that Scripture. You bring up logic and you are accused of Defying Authorities who presumably have already dealt with it and the case is closed. You challenge the authority and source of their articles of faith and you get various levels of hate and violence in return. The reason why there are so many similarities in the means is because the ends are the same, and that is to exploit the carnal nature of fallen and unregenerate man, appeal to the vanity and darkness that makes up the natural man and turn his heart against the Creator God.

It works even better if the false religion claims that is in league with the Creator God since most people only look at labels and not really at the defining attributes. ;)

[count-your-change]

“The hymen was closed even after birth [of Jesus]”

and you know this how?

“To Jesus passing through the locked door”

What??? Mary was wearing a wooden chastity belt? Who knew!!!

[Mad Dawg]

1. More non-Catholics and lukewarm Catholics read and wonder why someone would lie so much and repeat so many untruths about The Church. They'll think "there MUST be something about The Church that makes so many spread such lies that are easily proved wrong" and learn more about The Church and come to Christ through His Church.

I'm reading Chesterton's Orthodoxy and he offers a similar line of thought, about Christianity in general. The same folk accuse it of being too worldly and too world-denying, too pessimistic and too optimistic, too moral and to unconcerned with morals. He says it finally occurred to him that maybe the accusers were the ones who were wrong.

A member of this year's RCIA class says that she has taken really quite astonishing abuse from some co-workers since she let it slip she was thinking of entering into full communion. I think I mentioned before that I got some anonymous hate mail after I swam the Tiber. And I daresay we've all seen the involuntary curling, quickly covered with a bland smile, of the lip when people find we are Catholics.

Thank God for the chance to suffer, if not dishonor, a little transient discomfort for the Name.

[metmom]

Penance shows that we truly repent our sins.

No. Not willfully doing that sin again shows that we've repented of it.

We can show that we're sorry for our sins without making a spectacle of it by doing works, but by living righteously.

It's a lot harder to do that then spend a few minutes after confession saying your Hail Mary's, Our Fathers' and Rosary, if we've been that bad.

The problem with confession is that there's no motivation to not sin again. All you have to do is go next Saturday, confess and get your new set of penance to do and voila' you're done.

[metmom]

Met evidently believes in the latter 3, yet she asks where the former is in scripture without bothering to note that all are not terms directly found in scripture.

On the contrary, I was pointing out the hypocrisy of the Catholic position in rejecting *sola Scriptura* simply because the term isn't found in the Bible, and yet it goes and teaches the Trinity, the *Mother of God*, the Immaculate Conception, the inerrancy of Scripture none of which are mentioned by term in the Bible.