The Doctrine of Temple Work (Mormonism - Open)

Ensign ^ | October 2003 | Elder David E. Sorensen

[Colofornian]

Snip

...Joseph Smith warned of the consequences when we fail to use the temples available to us: “Those Saints who neglect [temple work] in behalf of their deceased relatives, do it at the peril of their own salvation.”

Snip

A key function of temples is to perform ordinance work for our deceased ancestors. When we think of temple ordinances and the necessity to do them perfectly, without error...

“… For their salvation is necessary and essential to our salvation...they without us cannot be made perfect—neither can we without our dead be made perfect” (D&C 128:5, 15;...).

Consider the...vision of President Joseph F. Smith...:

“Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins...having rejected the prophets.

Snip

The Lord revealed through... Joseph: “All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, … through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power … are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead” (D&C 132:7).

Snip

...One of the great privileges we have is the wearing of the garment...

...The garment, … when properly worn, will serve as a protection against temptation and evil.

“It is expected that members will wear the garment both night and day...Members should not adjust the garment or wear it contrary to instructions in order to accommodate different styles of clothing...The garment should not be removed for activities which might reasonably be done with the garment worn beneath the clothing...

[blasater1960]

That's because He wasn't.

Christianity says he is, Paul and the author of Hebrews also.

Read Genesis 15

I am not sure what your point is. The covenant was phased in over time with Abram and then Abraham with G-d repeating the promise after different events. Abram fell asleep to see the exile in Egypt. Deut 31 also predicts exile. But G-d never cancels the covenant and the prohets all prophecy the return of the Jewish people to their and restoration of their relationship to G-d. If G-d would have canceled the covenant, there would be no Jews in Israel today.

[Elsie]

 

Your “issue” about the first vision is addressed as usual... at the links provided.

 

 

Let ME help you folks that can't seem to find out the TRUTH you are looking for:

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KJV

 Galatians 1:6-9

 6.  I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
 7.  Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
 8.  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
 9.  As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
 

 

 

 

ANYBODY???

 

Like this fine looking fellow???

 

 

 

 

 

2 Corinthians 11:12-15

 12.  But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
 13.  For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
 14.  And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
 15.  Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

 

 

Like THESE guys??

 

 

 

 

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19

 

 

17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!

 

 

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Ephesians 2:1-2 

1.  And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

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1 Corinthians 4:17
  For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.

 

1 Corinthians 11:2
   Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

 

2 Thessalonians 2:15
   Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

 

2 Timothy 1:13
   Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

 

2 Timothy 3:14-15
 14.  But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
 15.  And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

[Elsie]

Those who insist that Mormonism is not Christian are usually not LDS.

DUH!!!

While those that do are deceived.

[Elsie]

COU:PLET?

We don't need no steeking COUPLET!!

We got the D's and the C's 132!!!

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THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS

SECTION 132

 

Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, recorded July 12, 1843, relating to the new and everlasting covenant, including the eternity of the marriage covenant, as also plurality of wives. HC 5: 501–507. Although the revelation was recorded in 1843, it is evident from the historical records that the doctrines and principles involved in this revelation had been known by the Prophet since 1831.

 

1–6, Exaltation is gained through the new and everlasting covenant; 7–14, The terms and conditions of that covenant are set forth; 15–20, Celestial marriage and a continuation of the family unit enable men to become gods; 21–25, The strait and narrow way that leads to eternal lives; 26–27, Law given relative to blasphemy against the Holy Ghost; 28–39, Promises of eternal increase and exaltation made to prophets and saints in all ages; 40–47, Joseph Smith is given the power to bind and seal on earth and in heaven; 48–50, The Lord seals upon him his exaltation; 51–57, Emma Smith is counseled to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.

 

  1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many ^awives and ^bconcubines—

  2 Behold, and lo, I am the Lord thy God, and will answer thee as touching this matter.

  3 Therefore, ^aprepare thy heart to receive and ^bobey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same.

  4 For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting ^acovenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye ^bdamned; for no one can ^creject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory.

  5 For all who will have a ^ablessing at my hands shall abide the ^blaw which was appointed for that blessing, and the conditions thereof, as were instituted from before the foundation of the world.

  6 And as pertaining to the new and ^aeverlasting covenant, it was instituted for the fulness of my ^bglory; and he that receiveth a fulness thereof must and shall abide the law, or he shall be damned, saith the Lord God.

  7 And verily I say unto you, that the ^aconditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, ^boaths, ^cvows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and ^dsealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is ^eanointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, and that too most holy, by ^frevelation and commandment through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this ^gpower (and I have appointed unto my servant Joseph to hold this ^hpower in the last days, and there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and the ⁱkeys of this priesthood are conferred), are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead.

  8 Behold, mine house is a house of ^aorder, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion.

  9 Will I ^aaccept of an offering, saith the Lord, that is not made in my name?

  10 Or will I receive at your hands that which I have not ^aappointed?

  11 And will I appoint unto you, saith the Lord, except it be by law, even as I and my Father ^aordained unto you, before the world was?

  12 I am the Lord thy God; and I give unto you this commandment—that no man shall ^acome unto the Father but by me or by my word, which is my law, saith the Lord.

  13 And everything that is in the world, whether it be ordained of men, by ^athrones, or principalities, or powers, or things of name, whatsoever they may be, that are not by me or by my word, saith the Lord, shall be thrown down, and shall ^bnot remain after men are dead, neither in nor after the resurrection, saith the Lord your God.

  14 For whatsoever things remain are by me; and whatsoever things are not by me shall be shaken and destroyed.

  15 Therefore, if a ^aman marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.

  16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in ^amarriage; but are appointed angels in ^bheaven, which angels are ministering ^cservants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

  17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are ^aangels of God forever and ever.

  18 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that ^acovenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.

  19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man ^amarry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and ^beverlasting covenant, and it is ^csealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of ^dpromise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the ^ekeys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit ^fthrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s ^gBook of Life, that he shall commit no ^hmurder whereby to shed innocent ⁱblood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their ^jexaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the ^kseeds forever and ever.

  20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from ^aeverlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be ^bgods, because they have ^call power, and the angels are subject unto them.

  21 Verily, verily, I say unto you, except ye abide my ^alaw ye cannot attain to this glory.

  22 For ^astrait is the gate, and narrow the ^bway that leadeth unto the exaltation and continuation of the ^clives, and few there be that find it, because ye receive me not in the world neither do ye know me.

  23 But if ye receive me in the world, then shall ye know me, and shall receive your exaltation; that ^awhere I am ye shall be also.

  24 This is ^aeternal lives—to ^bknow the only wise and true God, and Jesus Christ, whom he hath ^csent. I am he. Receive ye, therefore, my law.

  25 ^aBroad is the gate, and wide the way that leadeth to the ^bdeaths; and many there are that go in thereat, because they ^creceive me not, neither do they abide in my law.

  26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the ^aHoly Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they ^bcommit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be ^cdelivered unto the buffetings of ^dSatan unto the day of ^eredemption, saith the Lord God.

  27 The ^ablasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall ^bnot be ^cforgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit ^dmurder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be ^edamned, saith the Lord.

  28 I am the Lord thy God, and will give unto thee the ^alaw of my Holy Priesthood, as was ordained by me and my Father before the world was.

  29 ^aAbraham received all things, whatsoever he received, by revelation and commandment, by my word, saith the Lord, and hath entered into his exaltation and sitteth upon his throne.

  30 ^aAbraham received promises concerning his seed, and of the fruit of his loins—from whose ^bloins ye are, namely, my servant Joseph—which were to continue so long as they were in the world; and as touching Abraham and his seed, out of the world they should continue; both in the world and out of the world should they continue as innumerable as the ^cstars; or, if ye were to count the sand upon the seashore ye could not number them.

  31 This promise is yours also, because ye are of ^aAbraham, and the promise was made unto Abraham; and by this law is the continuation of the works of my Father, wherein he glorifieth himself.

  32 Go ye, therefore, and do the ^aworks of Abraham; enter ye into my law and ye shall be saved.

  33 But if ye enter not into my law ye cannot receive the promise of my Father, which he made unto Abraham.

  34 God ^acommanded Abraham, and Sarah gave ^bHagar to Abraham to wife. And why did she do it? Because this was the law; and from Hagar sprang many people. This, therefore, was fulfilling, among other things, the promises.

  35 Was Abraham, therefore, under condemnation? Verily I say unto you, Nay; for I, the Lord, ^acommanded it.

  36 Abraham was ^acommanded to offer his son Isaac; nevertheless, it was written: Thou shalt not ^bkill. Abraham, however, did not refuse, and it was accounted unto him for ^crighteousness.

  37 Abraham received ^aconcubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and ^bJacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their ^cexaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods.

  38 David also received ^amany wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me.

  39 ^aDavid’s wives and concubines were ^bgiven unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the ^ckeys of this power; and in none of these things did he ^dsin against me save in the case of ^eUriah and his wife; and, therefore he hath ^ffallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I ^ggave them unto another, saith the Lord.

  40 I am the Lord thy God, and I gave unto thee, my servant Joseph, an ^aappointment, and restore all things. Ask what ye will, and it shall be given unto you according to my word.

  41 And as ye have asked concerning adultery, verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man ^areceiveth a wife in the new and everlasting covenant, and if she be with another man, and I have not appointed unto her by the holy ^banointing, she hath committed ^cadultery and shall be destroyed.

  42 If she be not in the new and everlasting covenant, and she be with another man, she has ^acommitted adultery.

  43 And if her husband be with another woman, and he was under a ^avow, he hath broken his vow and hath committed adultery.

  44 And if she hath not committed adultery, but is innocent and hath not broken her vow, and she knoweth it, and I reveal it unto you, my servant Joseph, then shall you have power, by the power of my Holy Priesthood, to take her and ^agive her unto him that hath not committed ^badultery but hath been ^cfaithful; for he shall be made ruler over many.

  45 For I have conferred upon you the ^akeys and power of the priesthood, wherein I ^brestore all things, and make known unto you all things in due time.

  46 And verily, verily, I say unto you, that whatsoever you ^aseal on earth shall be sealed in heaven; and whatsoever you ^bbind on earth, in my name and by my word, saith the Lord, it shall be eternally bound in the heavens; and whosesoever sins you ^cremit on earth shall be remitted eternally in the heavens; and whosesoever sins you retain on earth shall be retained in heaven.

  47 And again, verily I say, whomsoever you bless I will bless, and whomsoever you curse I will ^acurse, saith the Lord; for I, the Lord, am thy God.

  48 And again, verily I say unto you, my servant Joseph, that whatsoever you give on earth, and to whomsoever you ^agive any one on earth, by my word and according to my law, it shall be visited with blessings and not cursings, and with my power, saith the Lord, and shall be without condemnation on earth and in heaven.

  49 For I am the Lord thy God, and will be ^awith thee even unto the ^bend of the world, and through all eternity; for verily I ^cseal upon you your ^dexaltation, and prepare a throne for you in the kingdom of my Father, with Abraham your ^efather.

  50 Behold, I have seen your ^asacrifices, and will forgive all your sins; I have seen your ^bsacrifices in obedience to that which I have told you. Go, therefore, and I make a way for your escape, as I ^caccepted the offering of Abraham of his son Isaac.

  51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to ^aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.

  52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, ^areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.

  53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been ^afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.

  54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and ^acleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be ^bdestroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.

  55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ^ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of ^beternal lives in the eternal worlds.

  56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid ^aforgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to ^brejoice.

  57 And again, I say, let not my servant Joseph put his property out of his hands, lest an enemy come and destroy him; for ^aSatan ^bseeketh to destroy; for I am the Lord thy God, and he is my servant; and behold, and lo, I am with him, as I was with Abraham, thy father, even unto his ^cexaltation and glory.

  58 Now, as touching the law of the ^apriesthood, there are many things pertaining thereunto.

  59 Verily, if a man be called of my Father, as was ^aAaron, by mine own voice, and by the voice of him that ^bsent me, and I have endowed him with the ^ckeys of the power of this priesthood, if he do anything in my name, and according to my law and by my word, he will not commit ^dsin, and I will justify him.

  60 Let no one, therefore, set on my servant Joseph; for I will justify him; for he shall do the sacrifice which I require at his hands for his transgressions, saith the Lord your God.

  61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse ^aanother, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.

  62 And if he have ^aten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery, for they belong to him, and they are given unto him; therefore is he justified.

  63 But if one or either of the ten virgins, after she is espoused, shall be with another man, she has committed adultery, and shall be destroyed; for they are given unto him to ^amultiply and replenish the earth, according to my commandment, and to fulfil the promise which was given by my Father before the foundation of the world, and for their exaltation in the eternal worlds, that they may bear the souls of men; for herein is the work of my Father continued, that he may be ^bglorified.

  64 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things, then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law.

  65 Therefore, it shall be lawful in me, if she receive not this law, for him to receive all things whatsoever I, the Lord his God, will give unto him, because she did not believe and administer unto him according to my word; and she then becomes the transgressor; and he is exempt from the law of Sarah, who administered unto Abraham according to the law when I commanded Abraham to take ^aHagar to wife.

  66 And now, as pertaining to this law, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will reveal more unto you, hereafter; therefore, let this suffice for the present. Behold, I am Alpha and Omega. Amen.

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The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
© 2010 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved.
Rights and use information. Privacy policy.

[Elsie]

Calling God arrogant isn’t such a smart thing to do friend.

It could be worse...

 

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"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.

The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.

This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the 'servant of servants', and they will be, until that curse is removed."

Brigham Young-President and second 'Prophet' of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877- Extract from Journal of Discourses.

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Here are two examples from their 'other testament', the Book of Mormon.

  2 Nephi 5: 21    'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'

  Alma 3: 6    'And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.'

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August 27, 1954 in an address at Brigham Young University (BYU), Mormon Elder, Mark E Peterson, in speaking to a convention of teachers of religion at the college level, said:

"The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent.I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after."

"He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage."

"That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, 'First we pity, then endure, then embrace'...."

(Rosa Parks would have probably told Petersen under which wheel of the bus he should go sit.)

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 1967, (then) Mormon President Ezra Taft Benson said,

"The Communist program for revolution in America has been in progress for many years and is far advanced. First of all, we must not place the blame upon Negroes. They are merely the unfortunate group that has been selected by professional Communist agitators to be used as the primary source of cannon fodder."

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We are told that on June 8, 1978, it was 'revealed' to the then president, Spencer Kimball, that people of color could now gain entry into the priesthood.

According to the church, Kimball spent many long hours petitioning God, begging him to give worthy black people the priesthood. God finally relented.

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Sometime before the 'revelation' came to chief 'Prophet' Spencer Kimball in June 1978, General Authority, Bruce R McConkie had said:

"The Blacks are denied the Priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty.

The Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from, but this inequality is not of man's origin, it is the Lord's doings."

(Mormon Doctrine, pp. 526-527).

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When Mormon 'Apostle' Mark E Petersen spoke on 'Race Problems- As they affect the Church' at the BYU campus in 1954, the following was also said:

"...if the negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."

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When Mormon 'Prophet' and second President of the Church, Brigham Young, spoke in 1863 the following was also said:

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so."

(Journal of Discourses, Vo. 10, p. 110)

Calling God arrogant isn’t such a smart thing to do friend.

[Colofornian]

I wouldn’t want to say you are wrong but your insistence as part of your doctrine says all others are wrong and worshiping in a state of apostasy. [Vendome]

We didn’t say it. God did. I guess he didn’t mind that you might be offended. He’d rather you listen up. [Paragon Defender]

PD made the same claim half a month ago. I challenged him and every Mormon then. I repeat the challenge now...with only a few phrases changed:

Note here how PD ducks responsibility...Mark #1 of a coward. No. Mormons are saying it. Contemporary Mormons. All on the word of what a pimply-faced 14-yo boy said he saw & heard. You really think that barely teen-age BOY Joey Smith was able to take in an assessment that said 100% of Christianity's creeds were an "abomination" to this being?

The fact that no Mormon openly took this challenge is a second mark of cowards.

So I'll repeat the challenge: Have you ever thought about putting 2 & 2 together? About an "angel of light" appearing & proclaiming "another gospel" (what the apostle Paul prophesied about in Galatians 1:6-8) -- and the reality that ONLY SATAN or a demon would announce that 100% of Christianity's creeds were an outright 'abomination' to him???

Hah, PD? (I mean, even a Mormon wouldn't say The Apostles Creed was an "abomination" to him or her, let alone God!!!)

I challenge YOU, EVERY MORMON APOLOGIST, EVERY MORMON LEADER, AND EVERY MORMON GRASSROOTS PERSON to do two things in this regard -- in fairness & in consideration of the millions of $ of slander you put out about the Christian church every day!

What are those two measely things I ask you & other Mormons to do?

#1 Please review the Apostles Creed.

Now why do I challenge you and other Mormons on this? Because Christians in 1820 only embraced a few universal creeds within the church. The Nicene Creed. The Apostles Creed.

And I've read The Apostles Creed with "Mormon eyes." I've looked for what might be objectionable to a Mormon in that creed and can't find it. (Caveat: Please note that the word "catholic" in that creed did not = the formal Roman Catholic church; it only meant at the time universal)

Now why is this important? Because if Mormons CANNOT pinpoint what is so abominable about this creed, then the personage who spoke to Smith wasn't God or Jesus Christ. Because God or Jesus Christ would not speak a falsehood.

So, I beg of you to read it: And as you read it, if you cannot find in it that which God would label it as an "abomination," you know then, that the statement within the First Vision was no better than even from a Mormon point of view to be a "half truth"...and God and Jesus are given to stating "half truths."

#2 Reread the First Vision of Joseph Smith.

Go to vv. 16-25 of Joseph Smith History, Pearl of Great Price. Now tell me anywhere in those passages where these "Personages" are identified as either "God" or "Jesus."

Go, ahead. Mormons often claim, we didn't say that; God did." Well, surely since I referenced what this entity said in v. 19 there MUST be some attribution to "God" if He said it.

Is His (or Jesus') Name in v. 19?
No? Well, maybe 14 yo Joey set it up in v. 18?
What? Not there either?
v. 17?
v. 16?
Well, let's look after v. 19.
v. 20?
v. 21?
v. 22?
v. 23?
v. 24?
v. 25?

Where is the SOURCE for you to claim that "God" said it?

Let's review what Joe said he felt and saw and heard:

v. 16:
Felt
Saw a pillar of light

v. 17:
“the light”
“two Personages” brightness & glory defy all description
a son of the other

v. 18:
“the Personages”

v. 19:
“the Personage”

v. 20:
“the light”

v. 24:
“a light” “heard a voice”

v. 25:
“a light” “two Personages”

Here, some Mormons have said they thoroughly investigated Mormonism!

Yet they've NEVER known these entities deliberately avoided identifying themselves as either God or Jesus?

Do I have to be the one who breaks the news to you that being "a son" of another unnamed being/personage (v. 17) doesn't equate to being Jesus?

Do I have to be the one pointing out to you that these entities are "no names" -- identityless -- per the vision account?

I tell you all what: If two unnamed personages show up Hollywoodesque prop and presentation-wise...but don't leave a calling card...don't take what they say to you at face value.

[MsLady]

Exactly, we can not earn grace. Grace is a gift.

We are no surprise to God when we fail. He isn't in heaven going, oh no, I had no idea he/she was going to do that. You repent if you sin and move on, hopefully learning from the experience.

[blasater1960]

9. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Uh-huh, just like this one:

Deut 4: 2"You shall not add to the word which I am commanding you, nor take away from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deut 12:32"Whatever I command you, you shall be careful to do; you shall not add to nor take away from it.

Christians added and took away commandments in violation of these two commandments....which are FOREVER. So you are no better than the mormons.

[ShadowAce]

OK, I'll spell it out then.

Covenants require(d) two parties to be in agreement. A covenant was legally, socially, and morally stronger than any other agreement/contract/arrangement in existence. If two people were in danger--one a close family member and the other a covenant partner--the covenant partner would receive the assistance, and the family member would be left to his/her own devices, even if the danger were mortal.

Covenants were serious things and not to be entered into lightly.

A covenant required that both parties take part in the covenant ceremony so as to be held accountable. The failure to live up to the covenant meant that the life of the person who failed was forfeit. The other party could walk up to him and just kill him on the street with no penalty.

Serious stuff.

God caused Abram to fall asleep. This meant that Abram did not participate in the covenant ceremony. God walked through the animal sacrifices by Himself. He took on the penalties of both parties for any failure by either party.

Man failed. We did not follow Him, nor become His people as He wished. We sinned. Our life is forfeit. That is why He sacrificed His Son. That was Him accepting the responsibility of that covenant.

Jesus' death was a covenantal penalty. We get our eternal life back by believing in Him who took our penalty. So, in a way, I guess you can say it was a sin sacrifice, but not in the traditional Jewish interpretation of that term.

But G-d never cancels the covenant and the prohets all prophecy the return of the Jewish people to their and restoration of their relationship to G-d. If G-d would have canceled the covenant, there would be no Jews in Israel today.

Agreed. The covenant was never canceled. That is why we are still able to come to God by believing on His Son.

[MsLady]

Why thank you ;)

[MsLady]

Could you point me to scripture in the bible that backs this up?

[ejonesie22]

GF isn’t calling God arrogant.

[Logophile]

It saddens me to learn this about you . . . . Momronism blasphemes . . .

Don't be sad on my account. I have never blasphemed against God. (Blasphemy: "gross irreverence towards any person or thing worthy of exalted esteem" Catholic Encyclopedia.)

. . . That you would believe such rot is very saddening.

Cheer up. The rot you describe is hardly an adequate summary of what I really believe.

That said, I do not wish to cause further sadness by discussing Mormonism with you.

Good day.

[Vendome]

De Nada.

[blasater1960]

God caused Abram to fall asleep. This meant that Abram did not participate in the covenant ceremony. God walked through the animal sacrifices by Himself. He took on the penalties of both parties for any failure by either party.

Abram did sleep through the covenant. There is no textual support for that. That makes no sense at all. He had a vision of the exile, thats it. All the other exiles were also prophesied as well when the Israelites blew it. But just as the exiles were prophesied, so is the return of the Israelites (Jews) to faithfulness to G-d. That is why you see the following:

And I shall give them one heart, and shall put a new spirit within them. And I shall take the heart of stone out of their flesh and give them a heart of flesh, that they may walk in My statutes and keep My ordinances, and do them. Then they will be My people, and I shall be their God. (Ezekiel 11:19-20)

My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. (Ezekiel 37:24) And many peoples shall come, and say: "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; that he may teach us his ways and that we may walk in his paths," for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. (Isaiah 2:3)

This next redemption will be different. The people will finally obey G-d.

Man failed. We did not follow Him, nor become His people as He wished. We sinned. Our life is forfeit. That is why He sacrificed His Son. That was Him accepting the responsibility of that covenant.

My FRiend, you are reading into the text things that are not there. It was not a failure. If we failed, then G-d failed becasue he knew the future. It was prophesied to occur just as it has. Our life is not forfeit, that is why G-d gives of means of forgiveness, prayer, repentance, charity. G-d forbids human sacrifice and Jesus blood atoned nothing. His blood was never required or allowed. He wasnt even sacrificed on the altar. He suffocated on a cross outside the city. That is not a sacrifice per the Torah. The church cant make up it's own rules of who and how a sacrifice is to be performed.

We get no relief from anyone elses death. The scriptures say, each person is responsible for their own sins. Ezek 18. The father can not die for his son, nor his son for the father. Personal responsibility. It's not just for government policy.

G-d told us in Deut 30 that the law is not up in heaven nor accross the sea....but near to us...that we may do it! DAvid says in Psalm 111 that the law is for ever! Psalm 119, the longest chapter in the bible, 176 verses of David praising and declaring his love of the law. G-d says David kept his commandments (1 kings 14:8) DAvid? The murderer? The adulterer? Yes. How? David repented. You dont see one person in all the bible bring a blood sacrifice for forgiveness of an intentioanl sin. not one. So, the system isnt flawed. We dont need a hybrid man-god savior for forgiveness.

[Saundra Duffy]

“Mormons are committing the same sin that Satan/Lucifer did that caused God to cast him out of heaven and damn him to eternity in hell. “

Condemned to hell - again - by the so-called Christians on this site.

“Jesus is the Lord” - I said that and believe it with all my heart.

“Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost” -
1 Corinthians 12:3

Personally, I think condemning people to hell is not the job for you or for any other lowly human being and I am as serious as a heart attack in that regard.

[CynicalBear]

>>Personally, I think condemning people to hell is not the job for you or for any other lowly human being and I am as serious as a heart attack in that regard.<<

Would you please re read my post? I said they are committing the same sin. I did not “condemn people to hell”. That will only be done by God if they don’t relent from their sin. Would you deny that to warn people of consequences is Biblical?

I did say that God did condemn Lucifer to hell and you may look that up in the Scriptures.
Sanctimony will get you no where. Understanding what you read will help more.

[Vendome]

I absolutely have no idea if Mormonism is wrong but it doesn’t feel right to have a group who nowadays wants parity as a sect of Christianity to run around telling everyone they “Are Apostates and Whores of Babylon” on the one hand and then in turn say “We don’t say that”.

So every time I shake my head and say “What?!” You do, your elders and every one of your Prophets have and do.

I can’t figure if it’s a difference in age thing. By that I mean, if you talk to most Mormons my age and younger, they apparently are not aware of their Prophets pronouncements or they willfully ignore those statements and want to distance themselves from them.

I have heard variously from those my age and younger and to a person they say “That sounds harsh and I don’t feel that way or wouldn’t think that way”.

So I am given to believe their a certain reformation of LDS that wants to be seen as more approachable and inclusive.

As far as Christianity having its roots in Judaism, of course it does. I don’t actually get your point as it is well known and one need only watch “The 10 Commandments” and “The Greatest Story Ever Told” to get a pretty fair representation of the two faiths and their wellsprings.

Besides, who can resist a movie Charleton Heston or Claude Raines?

Are you Jewish?

[Vendome]

You guys are always defensive. I don’t get it, really.

I simple explanation would do and as I said before your faith should be ample enough to support you with pride and not some fake injury.

And here you are once again the summation of the post and more directly the point and saying you just don’t like my question or tone.

Why, is there no answer to be supplied but for that I read on the Internet?