Posted on 10/25/2010 4:45:31 PM PDT by Salvation
Margaret Clitherow, pray for us.
Notable Martyrs of the Persecution (1555-1558)
This is not a comprehensive list ( over 300 burnt)
1555
William Hunter, burnt 27 March, Brentwood
Robert Ferrar, burnt 30 March, Carmarthen
Rawlins White, burnt, Cardiff
George Marsh, burnt 24 April, Chester
John Schofield, burnt 24 April, Chester
William Flower, burnt 24 April, Westminster
John Cardmaker, burnt 30 May, Smithfield
John Warne, burnt 30 May, Smithfield
John Simpson, burnt 30 May, Rochford
John Ardeley, burnt 30 May, Rayleigh
Dirick Carver of Brighton, burnt 6 June, Lewes
Thomas Harland of Woodmancote, burnt 6 June, Lewes
John Oswald of Woodmancote, burnt 6 June, Lewes
Thomas Avington of Ardingly, burnt 6 June, Lewes
Thomas Reed of Ardingly, burnt 6 June, Lewes
Thomas Haukes, burnt 6 June, Lewes
Thomas Watts
Nicholas Chamberlain, burnt 14 June, Colchester
Thomas Ormond, burnt June 15, 1555, Manningtree, Buried in St. Micheals & All Angels Marble placed in 1748
William Bamford, burnt 15 June, Harwich
Robert Samuel, burnt 31 August, Ipswich
John Newman, burnt August 31, Saffron Walden James Abbes Shoemaker, of Stoke by Nayland burnt at Bury St Edmunds August 1555
William Allen, Labourer of Somerton burnt at Walsingham September 1555
Robert Glover, burnt 20 September at Coventry
Cornelius Bongey (or Bungey), burnt 20 September at Coventry
Nicholas Ridley, burnt 16 October outside Balliol College, Oxford
Hugh Latimer, burnt 16 October outside Balliol College, Oxford
John Philpot, burnt 1556
Agnes Potten, burnt 19 February, Ipswich, Cornhill
Joan Trunchfield, burnt 19 February, Ipswich, Cornhill
Thomas Cranmer, burnt 21 March, outside Balliol College, Oxford
Thomas Hood of Lewes, burnt about 20 June, Lewes
Thomas Miles of Hellingly, burnt about 20 June, Lewes
John Tudson of Ipswich, burnt at London
Thomas Spicer of Beccles, burnt there 21 May
John Deny of Beccles, burnt there 21 May
Edmund Poole of Beccles, burnt there 21 May
Joan Waste, 1 August, burnt at Derby
1557
William Morant, burnt at end of May, St. George's Field, Southwark [11]
Stephen Gratwick, burnt at end of May, St. George's Field, Southwark [11]
(unknown) King, burnt at end of May, St. George's Field, Southwark [11]
Richard Sharpe, burnt 7 May, Cotham, Bristol
William and Katherine Allin of Frittenden and five others, burnt 18 June at Maidstone
Richard Woodman of Warbleton, burnt 22 June, Lewes
George Stevens of Warbleton, burnt 22 June, Lewes
Alexander Hosman of Mayfield, burnt 22 June, Lewes
William Mainard of Mayfield, burnt 22 June, Lewes
Thomasina Wood of Mayfield, burnt 22 June, Lewes
Margery Morris of Heathfield, burnt 22 June, Lewes
James Morris, her son, of Heathfield, burnt 22 June, Lewes
Denis Burges of Buxted, burnt 22 June, Lewes
Ann Ashton of Rotherfield, burnt 22 June, Lewes
Mary Groves of Lewes, burnt 22 June, Lewes
John Noyes of Laxfield, Suffolk, burnt 22 September
Joyce Lewis of Mancetter, burnt at Lichfield on 18 December[12].
1558
Roger Holland, burnt at Smithfield with seven others
William Pikes or Pickesse of Ipswich, burnt 14 July, Brentford with five others
Alexander Gooch of Melton, Suffolk, burnt 4 November, Ipswich Cornhill
Alice Driver of Grundisburgh burnt 4 November, Ipswich Cornhill
P Humphrey, burnt November, Bury St Edmunds
J. David, burnt November, Bury St Edmunds
H. David, burnt November, Bury St Edmunds
They were not martyrs. They were heretics.
These were the martyrs:
List of Catholic clerics executed in England 1534 - 1680
1534 - 1560
Thomas Abel, priest, 1540
John Allen, priest, 1538
George Ashby (Asleby), monk, 1537
Ralph Barnes, monk, 1537
Elizabeth Barton, Benedictine nun, 1534
John Beche, Abbot, Chester, 1539
Thomas Belchiam, Franciscan friar, 1538
Arthur Bell, Franciscan friar, 1543
Richard Bere, Carthusian monk, 1537
Robert Bird, priest, 1540
William Bird, priest, 1540
Laurence Blonham, monk, 1537
Edward Bocking, Benedictine, 1537
Edmund Brindholme, priest, 1544
Anthony Brookby, Franciscan, 1538
Thomas Brownel, Brigittine brother
Edward Burden, priest, 1538
William Burraby, priest, 1537
James Cockerell, Prior of Gisborough Priory, 1537
William Coe, monk, 1537
Lawrence Cook, Carmelite. Prior of Doncaster Friary, 1540
Richard Coppinger, Benedictine, 1558
Thomas Cort, Franciscan, 1537
Martin Coudres, Augustinian monk, 1544
William Cowper, monk, 1537
George Croft, priest, 1538
John Davy, Carthusian, 1537
John Dering, Benedictine, 1537
John Eastgate, monk, 1537
Richard Eastgate, monk, 1537
Thomas Empson, Benedictine, 1540
William Exmew, Carthusian monk, 1535
John Eynon, Benedictine monk, 1539
Hugh Faringdon, Abbot of Reading, 1539
Richard Featherstone, Archdeacon, 1540
John Fisher, Saint, Bishop, 1535
John Forrest, Franciscan friar, 1538
John Francis, monk, 1537
German Gardiner, 1548
Henry Gold, priest, 1537
William Greenwood, Carthusian brother, 1537
William Gylham, monk, 1537
John Haile (or Hale), priest, 1535
Richard Harrison, Abbot of Jervaulx, 1537
William Haydock, monk, 1537
Nicholas Heath, Prior of Lenton, 1537
John Henmarsh, priest, 1537
Robert Hobbes, Abbot of Woburn, 1537
John Houghton, Saint, Carthusian prior, 1535
John Ireland, priest, 1544
Roger James, Benedictine, 1539
Henry Jenkinson, monk, 1537
Thomas Kendal, priest, 1537
John Larke, priest, 1543
Robert Lawrence, Carthusians monk, Prior of the Beauvale Charterhouse, 1535
Richard Laynton, monk, 1537
Robert Leeche, layman, 1537
Hugh Londale, monk, 1537
Matthew Mackerel, Premonstratensian abbot, titular bishop of Chalcedon, 1537
James Mallet, priest, 1537
Richard Masters, priest, 1537
Humphrey Middlemore, Carthusian monk, 1535
Sebastian Newdigate, Carthusian monk, 1535
John Paslew, Abbot of Whatley, 1537
Paul of Saint William, Augustinian monk, 1544
William Peterson, priest, 1540
John Pickering, Benedictine, prior of York, 1537
John Pickering, priest, 1537
Walter Pierson, Carthusian, 1537
Edward Powell, priest, 1540
Thomas Redforth, priest, 1537
Richard Reynolds, Brigittine monk, 1535
Hugh Rich, Franciscan friar, 1534
William Richardson, priest, 1540
Richard Risby, Franciscan friar, 1534
John Rochester, Carthusian monk, 1537
John Rugg, monk, Reading, 1539
Adam Sedbar, Abbot of Jervaulx, 1537
Robert Singleton, priest, 1544
Thomas Slythurst, priest, 1560
John Stone, Saint, friar, 1538
William Swale, monk, 1537
John Tenant, monk, 1537
John Thorne, monk, Glastonbury, 1539
William Thyrsk, Cistercian, 1537
William Trafford, Abbot of Sawley, 1537
John Travers, monk, 1539
Richard Wade, monk, 1537
Friar Waire, Franciscan, 1539
James Walworth, Carthusian monk, 1537
Augustine Webster, Saint, Carthusian monk, 1535
Sister Isabel Whitehead, Benedictine nun
Richard Whiting, Abbot of Glastonbury, 1539
1561 - 1600
John Ackridge, priest, 1585
Thomas Ackridge, Franciscan, 1583
John Adams, priest, 1586
Thomas Alfield, priest, 1585
John Almond, Cistercian, 1585
John Amias, priest, 1589
Robert Anderton, priest, 1586
William Andleby, priest, 1597
William Baldwin (Bawden), priest, 1588
Christopher Bales, priest, 1590
Thomas Bedal, priest, 1590
George Beesley, priest, 1591
William Blackburne, priest, 1586
John Bodey, priest, 1583
John Boste, Saint, priest, 1594
Richard Bowes, priest, 1590
Alexander Briant, Jesuit priest, 1581
James Brushford, priest, 1593
Christopher Buxton, priest, died Canterbury, 1588
Edmund Campion, Jesuit priest, 1581
James Claxton (Clarkson), priest, 1588
James Clayton, priest, 1588
Henry Cole, priest, 1580
Laurence Collier, Franciscan, 1590
John Collins, priest, 1584
Henry Comberford, priest, 1584
John Cornelius, Jesuit priest, 1594
Thomas Cotesmore, priest, 1584
Thomas Cottam, Jesuit priest, 1582
Richard Creagh, archbishop of Armagh, 1585
Ralph Crockett, priest, 1588
Alexander Crowe, priest, 1587
Thomas Crowther, priest, 1585
Robert Dalby, priest, York, 1589
William Davies, priest, 1594
William Dean, priest, 1588
Richard (Robert) Dibdale, priest, 1586
Francis Dicconson, priest, 1590
Roger Dicconson, priest, 1591
George Douglas, priest, 1587
Anthony Draycott, priest, 1570
Edmund Duke, priest, 1590
Edward Edwardes (alias Campion), priest, 1588
John Feckenham, Benedictine, abbot of Westminster, 1585
Thomas Felton, Franciscan, 1588
James Fenn, priest, 1584
John Finch, 1584
John Finglow, priest, 1586
William Freeman, priest, 1595
Thomas Gabyt, Cistercian, 1575
Nicholas Garlick, priest, 1588
Edmund Gennings, priest, 1591
Miles Gerard, priest, 1590
Nicholas Grene, priest, 1571
- Gretus, priest
John Griffith (alias Jones), Saint, Franciscan friar, 1598
William Gunter, priest, 1588
William Hambledon, priest, 1585
John Hambley, priest, 1587
Everard Hanse, priest, 1581
Nicholas Harpsfield, priest, 1575
William Harrington, priest, 1594
John Harrison, priest, 1586
William Harrison, priest, 1594
William Hart, priest, 1583
William Hartley, priest, 1588
Thomas Harwood, priest, 1586
Richard Hatton, priest, 1584
George Haydock, priest, 1584
Thomas Hemerford, priest, 1584
John Hewitt, priest, 1588
Richard Hill, priest, 1590
John Hogg, priest, 1590
Thomas Holford, priest, 1588
Richard Holiday, priest, 1590
Robert Holmes, priest, 1584
Richard Horner, priest, 1598
Francis Ingleby, priest, 1586
John Ingram, priest, 1594
Edward James, priest, 1588
Edmund Jennings (Genings), Saint, priest, 1591
John Jetter, priest, 1585
Lawrence Johnson, priest, 1582
Robert Johnson, priest, 1582
Edward Jones, priest, 1590
Luke Kirby, Saint, priest, 1582
Joseph Lambton, priest, 1592
Richard Leigh, priest, 1588
James Lomax, priest, 1584
John Lowe, priest, 1586
Robert Ludlam, priest, 1588
William Marsden, priest, 1586
Roger Martin, priest, 1592
Cuthbert Mayne, Saint, priest, 1577
Thomas Metham, Jesuit, 1592
Anthony Middleton, priest, 1590
Robert Morton, priest, 1588
Thomas Mudde, Cistercian, 1583
John Munden, priest, 1584
John Nelson, priest, 1577
George Nichols, priest, 1589
John Nutter, priest, 1584
Robert Nutter, priest, 1600
Edward Oldcorne, Jesuit priest, 1561
Edward Osbaldeston, priest, 1594
Antony Page, priest, 1593
Thomas Palasor, priest, 1600
William Patenson, priest, 1592
John Payne, Saint, priest, 1582
Thomas Pilchard, priest, 1587
Polydore Plasden, priest, 1591
Thomas Plumtree, priest, 1570
Edward Pole, priest, 1585
Thomas Pormort, priest, 1592
Alexander Rawlins, priest, 1595
Christopher Robinson, priest, Carlisle, 1598
John Robinson, priest, 1588
John Roche, priest, 1588
Stephen Rowsham, priest, 1587
John Sandys, priest, 1586
Montford Scott, priest, 1591
Thomas Sedgwick, priest, 1573
Richard Sergeant, priest, 1586
Martin Sherson, priest, 1587
John Shert, priest, 1582
Peter Snow, priest, 1598
Robert Southwell, priest, 1595
William Spenser, priest, 1589
Thomas Sprott, priest, 1600
James Stonnes, priest, 1585
John Story, Chancellor to Bishop Bonner, 1571
Edward Stransham, priest, 1586
Robert Sutton, priest, 1587
Edmund Sykes, priest, 1587
Richard Simpson (or Sympson, or Robert Sympson), priest, 1588
Gabriel Thimelby, priest, 1587
Richard Thirkeld, priest, 1583
James Thompson, priest, York, 1582
John Thompson, Jesuit
William Thomson, priest, 1586
Hugh Taylor, priest, York, 1585
Robert Thorpe, priest, 1591
Edward Thwing, priest, 1600
Lawrence Vaux, priest, 1585
Roger Wakeman, priest, 1584
Sir Edward Waldegrave, 1561
Henry Walpole, Saint, priest, 1595
Edward Waterson, priest, 1593
William Way (alias May or Flower), priest, 1588
Swithin Wells, priest, 1591
Richard Weston, Jesuit
Christopher Wharton, priest, 1600
Eustace White, priest, 1591
Robert Wilcox, priest, 1588
Richard Williams, priest, 1592
Thomas Wood, priest, 1588
John Woodcock, Franciscan, 1646
Nicholas Woodfen, priest, 1586
Richard Yaxley, priest, 1589
1601 - 1680
Placid Aldham (Adelham), Benedictine, 1679
William Allison, priest, 1681
John Almond, Saint, priest, 1612
Edmund Arrowsmith, Jesuit priest, 1628
Ralph Ashley, Jesuit priest, 1606
William Atkins, Jesuit, 1681
Nicholas Atkinson, priest, 1610
Thomas Atkinson, priest, 1616
Edward Bamber, priest, 1646
Mark Barkworth, Benedictine, 1601
Ambrose Edward Barlow, Saint, priest, 1641
Thomas Bedingfeld, Jesuit, 1678
William Bentney (alias Bennet), Jesuit, 1692
Richard Birkett, priest, 1680
Thomas Blount, priest, 1647
Richard Bradley, Jesuit, 1645
Matthew Brazier (alias Grimes), Jesuit, 1650
James Brown, Benedictine, 1645
Thomas Bullaker, priest, 1642
Roger Cadwallador, priest, 1610
Edmund Cannon, priest, 1651
Brian Cansfield, Jesuit, 1643
Edmund Catheriok, priest, 1642
Walter Coleman, Franciscan, 1645
Benedict Constable, Benedictine, 1683
Ralph Corbie, Jesuit, 1644
Robert Cox, Benedictine, 1650
Christopher Dixon, Augustinian, 1616
Robert Drury, priest, 1607
John Duckett, priest, 1644
Thomas Dyer, Benedictine, c.1618-1630
Robert Edmonds, Benedictine, 1615
Philip Evans, Jesuit, 1679
John Fenwick, Jesuit priest, 1679
Roger Filcock, priest, 1601
Matthew Flathers, priest, 1607
Thomas Foster (Forster), Jesuit, 1648
Andrew Fryer (alias Herne or Richmond), priest, 1651
Henry Garnet, Jesuit, 1606
Thomas Garnet, Saint, Jesuit priest, 1608
John Gavan, Jesuit priest, 1679
John Gerard (Jesuit), priest, Jesuit, 1637
George Gervase, Benedictine, 1608
John Goodman (Jesuit), priest, 1645
Hugh Green, priest, 1642
William Harcourt, Jesuit, 1679
James Harrison, priest, 1602
Henry Heath, Franciscan friar, 1643
Ildephonse Hesketh (alias William Hanson), Benedictine, 1644
Thomas Holland, priest, 1642
Thomas Hunt, priest, 1600
Thurstan Hunt, priest, 1601
William Ireland, Jesuit priest, 1679
Thomas Jennison, Jesuit, 1679
John Kemble, Saint, priest, 1679
David Joseph Kemys (Kemeys), monk, 1680
Richard Lacey, Jesuit, 1680
Francis Levison, Franciscan, 1679
David Lewis, Jesuit, 1679
John Lloyd, Saint, priest, 1679
William Lloyd, priest, 1679
John Lockwood, priest, 1642
Laurence Mabbs, Benedictine, 1641
Charles Mahoney (alias Meehan), Franciscan friar, 1679
Thomas Maxfield, priest, 1616
Edward Mico, Jesuit, 1678
Robert Middleton, priest, 1601
William Middleton (alias Heathcote), Benedictine, 1644
Thomas Molineux, Jesuit, 1681
Edward Morgan, priest, 1642
Henry Morse, Saint, Jesuit priest, 1645
George Napper, priest, Oxford, 1610
Francis Nevil, Jesuit, 1679
Richard Newport, priest, 1612
Francis Page, Jesuit, 1602
Placid Peto, Benedictine, 1642–1643
John Pibush, priest, 1601
Thomas Pickering, Benedictine, 1679
William Plessington, priest, 1679
Nicholas Postgate, priest, 1679
Philip Powel, Benedictine, 1646
Thomas Preston (alias Roger Widdrington), Benedictine, 1640
Francis Quashet, priest, 1642
Thomas Reynolds (alias Green), priest, 1642
William Richardson, priest, 1603
John Roberts, Saint, Benedictine, 1610
Alban Bartholomew Roe, Saint, Benedictine monk, 1642
William Scot (Maurus Scott) 1612
Thomas Somers, priest, 1610
William Southerne, priest, 1618
Saint John Southworth, priest, 1654
John Sugar, priest, 1604
John Thulis, priest, 1616
Thomas Thwing, priest, 1679
Thomas Tichborne, priest, 1602
Cuthbert Tunstall, priest, 1616
Thomas Tunstall, priest, 1616
Anthony Turner, Jesuit, 1679
Edward Turner, Jesuit, 1681
John Wall, Saint, Franciscan friar, 1679
William Ward, Saint, priest, 1641
Robert Watkinson, priest, 1602
Thomas Whitaker, priest, 1646
Thomas Whitbread, Jesuit, 1679
Edward Wilkes, priest, 1642
Thomas Woodhouse, priest, 1572
Peter Wright, Jesuit, 1651
No precise date of martyrdom available
Richard Adams, priest
Thomas Belser, priest
William Bannersley, priest
Humphrey Browne, Jesuit
George ab Alba Rose, Augustinian
James Gerard, priest
John Hudd, Jesuit
Thomas Moyne
John Pearson, priest
John Penketh, Jesuit
Cuthbert Prescott, Jesuit
Ignatius Price, Jesuit
Charles Pritchard, Jesuit
Thomas Ridall, priest
John Rivers (alias Austen Abbot), priest
Francis Simeon, Jesuit
James Swarbrick, priest
Charles Thursley, Jesuit
Thomas Vaughan, priest
John Young, priest
Boniface Wilford, Benedictine
During Mary’s reign heretics were executed. During Henry VIII’s and Elizabeth I’s reign (and others’ reigns) Catholics were martyred for holding to the only faith anyone in their homeland had ever known for nearly a thousand years.
Thank you for mentioning that. I didn’t know much about persecution under Queen Mary. Very violent people on both sides, I guess.
Thanks, vlad.
Why was the government under Mary executing heretics?
Thank God I live in the US, where I don’t have to worry about fanatics on either side trying to burn me at the stake.
You wrote:
“Why was the government under Mary executing heretics?”
1) It was the law.
2) Some were responsible for murders, or theft, and causing massive upheavel.
3) They did not pay attention to warnings to leave England and take their heretical views with them.
“Thank God I live in the US, where I don’t have to worry about fanatics on either side trying to burn me at the stake.”
Not nowadays - until the Muslims take power (God help us!). Thankfully the days of Protestants persecution of Catholics ended long ago in the US. They no longer burn our convents or attack our churches as they once did.
One man's heretic is anothers martyr. Interesting to see the shade of Torquemada still lurking in the shadows.
Even stranger that someone holds to it in 2010.
If someone comes after me because I am a Protestant, they will find I push back.
1) It was the law.
2) Some were responsible for murders, or theft, and causing massive upheavel.
3) They did not pay attention to warnings to leave England and take their heretical views with them.
Exactly the same rationale that was used to persecute the Catholics under Elisabeth I.
The disarray and corruption in the Catholic Church during the Late Middle ages and early Rennaisance was enough to put anyone off the established church.
See this extract from University of Wisconsin - Green Bay.
Collapsing Institutions
In the midst of all these upheavals, the Church was scarcely in a position to offer comfort. Since 1309 the Pope had resided at Avignon in southern France, rather than Rome. The "Babylonian Exile" began after the King of France attempted to tax the incomes of Church officials. The Pope responded by forbidding secular rulers to tax the Church and threatening to excommunicate the King, whereupon agents of the King attempted to kidnap the Pope. When a French Pope was elected in 1309, he moved to Avignon for safety and to be closer to his French mistress.(?????)
At Avignon, the corruption and moral laxity of the Church reached all-time lows. Tuchman states flatly that in all the secular literature of the time, "clerical celibacy is a joke."
The Italian writer Petrarch called Avignon "the Babylon of the West." Avignon was governed by one simple rule: absolutely everything in the Church was for sale, ecclesiastical offices, pardon for sins, holy relics.
Pope Clement VI, hardly a spiritual man himself, at one point launched a tirade against his fellow churchmen:
What can you preach to the people? If on humility, you yourselves are the proudest of the world, puffed up, pompous and sumptuous in luxuries. If on poverty, you are so covetous that all the benefices of the world are not enough for you. If on chastity - but we will be silent on this, for God knows what each man does and how many of you satisfy your lusts.
The Pope was still ruler of much of central Italy - the Papal States, but that rule turned out to be impossible to enforce from Avignon. Revolts were frequent, inspired by resentment at the Papal exile, the general air of corruption, and heavy taxes to support the lush lifestyles of Avignon. They were fanned by the city-states of northern Italy, who were profoundly uncomfortable at having French power on both sides and who hoped to pick up any pieces of the Papal States that broke off.
During one revolt, Cardinal Robert of Geneva subdued the town of Cesena and had about 5,000 civilians massacred, for which he earned the undying hatred of the Italians and the nickname "Butcher of Cesena."
When Florence offered Rome inducements to join the revolts, it became obvious that the Pope had to return to Rome or lose it. Pope Gregory XI returned to Rome in 1377 and died the next year. With the French cardinals divided among themselves and Italian mobs demanding an Italian Pope, the Cardinals elected the apparently harmless Urban VI, who promptly launched a campaign to end some of the more flagrant forms of Church corruption. Urban made peace with the northern Italian city states and refused to leave Rome, earning the support of the Italians and the enmity of the French.
However, Urban quickly went beyond rational reform and became progressively more irrational and megalomaniacal as his reign wore on. He also began meddling in secular politics in a way that directly threatened French interests. Within a few months the French cardinals declared the election invalid, claiming Italian coercion to name an Italian Pope, They called a conclave of their own and elected as Clement VII none other than Robert of Geneva, the "Butcher of Cesena."
Faced on the one hand with the megalomania of Urban and the stupefying French arrogance in naming the one man most hated by the Italians as Pope on the other, even the articulate Tuchman is almost at a loss for words. She comments: "Perhaps by this time the 14th century was not quite sane. If enlightened self-interest is the criterion of sanity, in the verdict of [historian Jules] Michelet, 'no epoch was more naturally mad.'"
The so-called Great Western Schism lasted until 1447, during which time there were rival Popes in Rome and Avignon. Since the Catholic Church based its claim to authority on an unbroken succession of Popes, the existence of two parallel papacies was more than just a power struggle; it was a fundamental challenge to the whole medieval world-view. The corruption of the papal court at Avignon reached legendary proportions and the priestly vows of poverty and celibacy were widely viewed as jokes by the general public. Public disgust with Church scandals fueled some of the earliest stirrings of the Protestant Reformation.
The Englishman John Wycliff and the Bohemian Jan Hus were the first of the reformers. Hus was burned at the stake as a heretic in 1415; Wycliff died a natural death in 1384 but was tried for heresy after the execution of Hus and his bones dug up and burned.
Not exactly a model of rectitude and moral enlightenment.
bump
Allrighty then. I'm leaving. And anyway I wouldn't want to belong to a caucus that would have me as a member epecially one that thinks there's no moral equivalence between one set of Human beings burning another set and then the others returning the favor.
GAB I hope you leaving too. This is a thread for upholding the old established traditions of the Catholic Church - such as burning heretics, infallibility in matters spiritual and suppressing dissent. I'm off to the NON Catholic Caucus, I just hope they don't approve of burning people.
I was very surprised during the recent visit by Benedict XVI when they said 10% of England was Catholic; I had no idea that it was so low (especially in light of the number of people recruited to work there from Ireland in WWII, while their menfolk were away at war).
You wrote:
“What a strange view! Because it was lawful to execute Protestants it was morally right?”
Who said that?
“Whatever happened to “Venegance is mine, I will repay?””
Who said it was about vengence?
“Even stranger that someone holds to it in 2010.”
Who holds it now?
You wrote:
“Exactly the same rationale that was used to persecute the Catholics under Elisabeth I.”
1) There were no longstanding laws against the Catholic faith. There were longstanding laws against heresies (e.g. Protestantism).
2) The Catholics martyred by Elizabeth committed or participated in no murders, no thefts and few if any upheavals. Most tried very hard to not do anything other minister to their flocks. They usually made no public statements, issued no public writings, called for no violence and encouraged no violence.
3) Since the Catholics were not heretics - as recognized by longstanding English law - they could not be correctly accused of such or correctly warned to leave for harboring heretical views.
Your assertions fail utterly.
Also, I would not be so quick to trust your source. This is the guy’s expertise:
B.A. 1969, University of California/Berkeley (geology) M.Phil 1974, Columbia University (geology) Ph.D. 1976, Columbia University (structural geology)
He’s NOT a historian by training to say the least. Also, it uses sources no serious historian would rely on. The express purpose of the passage is to explain the history of technology, not history of religious or political events. Also, he should have listed the end of the Western Schism as 1417 - the Council of Constance - not 1447.
Also, I don’t even know what the purpose of your extract is in your post. 1) Even if there was “disarray and corruption in the Catholic Church during the Late Middle ages and early Rennaisance” - a claim that an increasing number of historians now recognize as more Protestant propaganda than historical fact - how does that: a) square with the ending quote from your new found historical source, “By 1400, the worst of the upheavals had passed and European society was on the mend.” That would mean the “worst of the upheavals” would have been long over by the reign of Henry VIII in the 16th century!!! And b) how would any amount of supposed “disarray and corruption in the Catholic Church” change the fact that the faith the Church espoused was still true? It wouldn’t. And then there’s this huge, gaping hole in your presentation: it’s essentially rubbish: http://www.the-orb.net/non_spec/missteps/ch11.html
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