Defense worked last night!!!!!
Posted on 10/24/2010 8:05:32 AM PDT by Colofornian
Joseph and Lucy Mack Smith. Both parents were poorly educated, very superstitious, and deeply involved in the occult (magic). The destitute Smith family moved frequently, with the mystical Joseph Sr. etching out a meager existence by farming, digging for buried treasure, and "water witching." When all else failed, he even attempted to mint his own money (a practice that was disliked by the local constabulary).
The Smith family had a reputation for low moral character. According to more than sixty affidavits signed by members of the community, "...we have no hesitation in saying, that we consider them destitute of moral character, which ought to entitle them to the confidence of the community. They were particularly famous for visionary projects, spent much of their time in digging for money which they pretended was hid in the earth;...Joseph Smith, Senior, and his son Joseph, were in particular, considered entirely destitute of moral character, and addicted to vicious habits." 1
Joseph, Jr. learned well from the poor examples shown by his parents. According to one acquaintance, "...his habits of exaggeration and untruthfulness...and by reason of the extravagances of his statement, his word was received with the least confidence by those who knew him best. He would utter the most palpable exaggeration or marvelous absurdity with the utmost apparent gravity." 2
Joseph Smith, Jr. spent his youth practicing what we know today to be witchcraft and occultism--drawing magic circles, crystal gazing (with his famous "peep stone"), water-witching, sacrificing animals to manipulate the spirits, enchantments, communication with familiar spirits (necromancy), and astrological magic talismans and swords.
SNIP
(1) Walter Martin, The Maze of Mormonism, 1983, p. 25 (from Mormonism Unvailed, E. D. Howe, 1834, p. 261) (2) Ibid. (from The Origin, Rise and Progress of Mormonism, Tucker, 1847, p. 16)
(Excerpt) Read more at usminc.org ...
Defense worked last night!!!!!
In 1823, at age 17, Joseph Smith was visited by an angelic being in his home in New York state:
“He called me by name, and said unto me that he was a messenger sent from the presence of God to me, and that his name was Moroni; that God had a work for me to do; and that my name should be had for good and evil among all nations, kindreds, and tongues, or that it should be both good and evil spoken of among all people” (http://lds.org/library/display/0,4945,104-1-3-1,00.html)
This prediction is being fulfilled. It doesn’t surprise me to hear the intense opposition and ridicule that has been directed towards him. It has always been the case with the servants of God.
I know that Joseph Smith was called by God to be a prophet in these latter days — this testimony has come to me and millions more through the witness of the Holy Ghost. I believe that his same witness can come to all who seek to know the truth from God through the prayer of faith, with a sincere desire to know the truth.
Normandy
ALL: you need to understand a few things Mormons believe about angels:
(1) A figure of the angel Moroni sits atop Mormon temples. The cross isn't the primary symbol of the Mormon church; this angel is.
(2) Who are angels according to Joseph Smith? And particularly who was Moroni?
Answer: "Moroni, who deposited the plates in a hill in Manchester, Ontario County, New York, being dead and raised again therefrom, appeared unto me, and told me where they were, and gave me directions how to obtain them." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119)
So who was Moroni per Smith? Why, he was a deceased spirit. A ghost. A ghost was the jumpstarter of Mormonism!
Smith went on to describe a "sister's" first vision in which "Many true things were spoken by this personage, and many things that were false. How, it may be asked, was this known to be a bad angel? (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 214)
So how, perchance, was Smith able to "distinguish" between a "good" angel and a "bad" one? Why, he answered that, too: "By the color of his hair; that is one of the signs that he can be known by..." (pp. 214-215)
Bottom-line, Smith had ZERO discernment on how to tell the difference between a demon masquerading as a ghost (Moroni), and a true angel.
The other way Joseph Smith advocated that people discern between a...
..."just...angel",,,
...and a "deceiv[ing]...devil" (Mormon Doctrine & Covenants 129:4-8)
...is to "offer him your hand and request him to shake hands with you" (Mormon Doctrine & Covenants 129:4).
If you wind up shaking your hand with the devil, says ole Joe, "you will not feel anything; you may therefore detect him" (D&C 129:8).
So there ya go. Hair color and handshaking.
Tell me something. Would you buy even a used car from a used car dealer who told you the way you can discern between a well-maintenaced vehicle & and a lemon is the color of the car and the nature of the handshake of the dealer???
“I learned a testimony concerning Abraham, and he reasoned concerning the Gods of heaven. '...Intelligences exist one above another, so that there is no end to them.' If Abraham reasoned thus--If Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and John discovered that God the Father of Jesus Christ had a Father, you may suppose that He had a Father also. Where was there ever a son without a father? And where was there ever a father without first being a son? Whenever did a tree or anything spring into existence without a progenitor? And everything comes in this way. Paul says that which is earthly is in the likeness of that which is heavenly. Hence if Jesus had a Father, can we not believe that He had a Father also? I despise the idea of being scared to death at such a doctrine, for the Bible is full of it. I want you to pay particular attention to what I am saying. Jesus said that the Father wrought precisely in the same way as His Father had done before Him. As the Father had done before? He laid down His life, and took it up the same as His Father had done before. (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 373)
"We were begotten by our Father in Heaven; the person of our Father in Heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by His Father; and again, He was begotten by a still more ancient Father; and so on, from generation to generation, ... we wonder in our minds, how far back the genealogy extends, and how the first world was formed, and the first father was begotten" (Orson Pratt, The Seer, p.132).
In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it. (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 5, 1844)
"Some people are troubled over the statements of the Prophet Joseph Smith.... The matter that seems such a mystery is the statement that our Father in heaven at one time passed through a life and death and is an exalted man. This is one of the mysteries.... The Prophet taught that our Father had a Father and so on. Is not this a reasonable thought, especially when we remember that the promises are made to us that we may become like him?" (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp.10, 12).
“I will go back to the beginning, before the world was, to show what kind of a being God is. What sort of a being was God in the beginning? Open your ears and hear, all ye ends of the earth; for I am going to prove it to you by the Bible, and to tell you the designs of God in relation to the human race, and why he interferes with the affairs of man. God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret. (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3, 1844)
The above direct quotes from Momron sources reveal the truth about Momronism and why it is considered 'not Christianity in any shape or form' by all the major Christian denominations in the World. The god of Mormonism is a lie, just low enough in imaginary standing so that Mormons are encouraged to strive to someday be a god also.
I understand that the doctrines found in your quotations don’t fit into what many Christians believe.
However, I don’t find anything objectionable in these teachings. I’m glad to learn new truths about God, and I’m thankful that through the restoration of Christ’s church we have been given additional revelations about the nature of God, man, and the purpose of life.
Even though the bible clearly teaches that there is only one God in all existence anywhere. That truth is diametrically opposed to the 'truth' put forth by smith. They cannot co-exist.
Shame on you for continuing to post that bit so full of falsehoods. You don’t even get through the first paragraph.
Honest and sincere lurkers will read that paragraph alone, do their own research and voila.... one of those ahah moments I mention. Thanks for continuing to prove my point but wouldn’t it make you feel better if you were just truthful?
Claiming that you merely post (occasionally) from “Official Mormon Sources” is a falsehood based on omission. You omit that after wards follows the straw man arguments, misrepresentations and twisting of truth.
Perhaps you would like to add that in. It would be a start and might make you feel a little better about yourself.
“Shame on you for continuing to post that bit so full of falsehoods.”
... ABSOLUTELY, 100% TRUTH. You apparently do not have
a familiarity with what truth feels like or looks like.
“You don’t even get through the first paragraph.”
... I got through all the paragraphs.
“Honest and sincere lurkers will read that paragraph alone, do their own research and voila.... one of those ahah moments I mention.”
... Let us know when that happens. Are you implying that
if they do not see it your way, that they are not honest
and sincere? That sounds familiar, for some reason.
“Thanks for continuing to prove my point but wouldn’t it make you feel better if you were just truthful?”
... It must be cozy in the world you live in. :-)
“Claiming that you merely post (occasionally) from “Official Mormon Sources” is a falsehood based on omission.”
... Christians post from the Book of Mormon ALL DAY here, as
well as other official sources. You deny them all, unless
you post them. That speaks for itself.
“You omit that after wards follows the straw man arguments, misrepresentations and twisting of truth.”
...I have never made a straw man argument, like you do in every
one of your non-factual, non-evidential, non-logical posts.
That’s OK, post whatever you wish.
“Perhaps you would like to add that in.”
... If I did, it would be a falsehood, which I do not
include in my posts.
“It would be a start and might make you feel a little better about yourself.”
... My posts are not about me and I already feel blessed.
They are not about you either, except the part about not
providing anything but feelings and links that never
contain facts, evidence or logical support for mormonism.
That part at least sounds like it describes your posting
history here.
In any case, I wish you well in life. Please continue to
demonstrate a non-defense of mormonism and we will continue
to list facts, evidence and logical argument that invalidates
mormonism.
best,
ampu
PS- FUN MORMON FACT: There are 4 mormon earth gods:
1. Heavenly Father, who used to be a man
2. Mormon Jesus, who was a created spirit being
3. Holy Ghost, who was a created spirit being
4. Heavenly Mother, who used to be a woman, and now as a goddess, breeds with Heavenly Father to populate the earth.
The other sister wives are not pleased being left out.
Adam-God is upset as well.
Christians post from the Book of Mormon ALL DAY here, as
well as other official sources. You deny them all, unless
you post them.
Another false statement. Just keep piling em on eh?
In 1823, at age 17, Joseph Smith was visited by an angelic being in his home in New York state:
Sadly; your 'new truth' conflicts with the OLD truth.
But that is no problem for MORMONs, for they EASILY reject the OLD in favor of the NEW.
In conclusion let us summarize this grand key, these “Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet”, for our salvation depends on them.
1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything.
2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works.
3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet.
4. The prophet will never lead the church astray.
5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time.
6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture.
7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know.
8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning.
9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual.
10. The prophet may advise on civic matters.
11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich.
12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly.
13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church.
14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer.
I testify that these fourteen fundamentals in following the living prophet are true. If we want to know how well we stand with the Lord then let us ask ourselves how well we stand with His mortal captain—how close do our lives harmonize with the Lord’s anointed—the living Prophet—President of the Church, and with the Quorum of the First Presidency.
Ezra Taft Benson
(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University)
Sadly; your 'new truth' conflicts with the OLD truth.
But that is no problem for MORMONs, for they EASILY reject the OLD in favor of the NEW.
Where??
I saw NONE!
Can you point out what YOU found??
If you are going to call someone a LIAR; it would behoove you to actually point out the LIE you claim they said.
Flanagan; it's getting old...
PD says the above is a LIE!
“Christians post from the Book of Mormon ALL DAY here, as
well as other official sources. You deny them all, unless
you post them.
“Another false statement. Just keep piling em on eh?
Man up and prove it-though I know you cannot...
TN Nana, It’s ironic, I met LDS members when living in Murfreesboro, TN. They didn’t curse, drink, smoke, always smiled, had positive things to say, prayed with me, and were good to my family.
Some of the nicest people I’ve ever met.
So here we go, Mitt Romney, Orin Hatch, Bill Bennett or any other Mormon politician to my knowledge have never forced their beliefs on the public. Barry Soetoro a mormon - that’s a new one for me. I believe Black Liberation Theology / Islamic studies in Indonesia as a child is the correct religion(s).
We could go down that path; Jimmy Carter - Southern Baptist, Pelosi - Catholic, Biden - Catholic, Lieberman - Jewish, G. W. Bush - Methodist, Clinton - Baptist, etc...
To my knowledge, Obama and Pelosi are the only ones legislating the way “God wants”, eg: I am my brother’s keeper, as Obama puts it.
And yes Elsie, I now know that I am on a RELIGION thread. Thank you informing me.
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