Posted on 10/22/2010 2:42:31 AM PDT by Gamecock
CHARLOTTE, N.C. — In shopping around for a Cub Scout program for their two sons, ages 6 and 8, Jeremy and Jodi Stokes decided on the one at Christ Covenant Church in Matthews, N.C.
The Stokeses, also of Matthews, weren't members of the evangelical megachurch, but they had many friends who were. And unlike the Cub Scout pack at their own church, which doesn't have a program for 6-year-old Tiger Scouts, Christ Covenant's was big enough to accommodate both of their boys.
The couple even signed up to be Scout leaders when they discovered the church needed adult help. And when the Scouting officials at Christ Covenant found out Jeremy Stokes was an Eagle Scout, they were thrilled.
So why did Christ Covenant reject the Stokeses' application to be Scout leaders?
Because they're Mormons. And, therefore, not real Christians, church officials told the couple.
"I can't believe they had the audacity to say, 'You can't be leaders, but we want your boys,' " Jodi Stokes said. "Are you kidding me?"
The Rev. Gabe Sylvia, Christ Covenant's staff liaison to the Scouting program, confirmed the Stokeses' account. He called them to apologize but defends the church's decision.
"When it became clear that they were Mormons, they could not become leaders in our pack. Mormonism is not consistent with historical Christianity," he said.
That view — that Mormons, whose church is formally titled the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, are not Christians — is shared by other Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox Christian churches, as well.
"It was so offensive," said Jodi Stokes, who was raised Catholic, then became a Mormon. "I have a picture of Jesus in my living room."
Members of the Salt Lake City-based church believe salvation is possible because of the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. But significant theological differences separate Mormons from most Christian churches.
The LDS church treats as holy scripture the Book of Mormon, which isn't recognized by other churches, but which it believes was divinely revealed to Joseph Smith in the 1820s.
Mormons also disavow belief in the core Christian doctrine of the Trinity — that the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one — instead believing the three to be individuals united in a single purpose.
Mormons believe the original Christian church vanished 100 years after Jesus' death and resurrection. The authentic church, they believe, was restored by Smith.
And God Himself has aleady communicated to us through the bible and needs no reinterpretation or special revelation to understand.
However, the issue can often be boiled down to what, besides his own words and a subjective feeling, gives evidence that Joseph Smith was a prophet?
Nine contradictory 'first vision' accounts
No physical evidence to support the bom
Physical evidence for the book of abraham shows smith's translation to be a fraud
Smith illegally practiced polygamy/bigamy while at the same time his church's official doctrine was monogamy and obeying the civic laws.
Smith lied about having plural wives in a court of law
No prophecy uttered by smith has come to pass.
These are facts that the lds church will not present to the public, but actively tries to hide. All involve lying to one degree or another - who is the source of lies norm?
God gave us our brains to use to recognize these things for what they are - false teachings from a false prophet.
LOL, I'm sure you are, having to force yourself to look at that apalling view with a cup of coffee in your hand.
Pretty clear to the clear.
Amen.
That is correct kind sir! Coffee starts at 5:00 and it’s still dark here that time of day. This morning it got down to 25 degrees so coffee was a welcome thing.
Indeed! The best part of waking up!
My faith is based upon personal knowledge — what I have personally experienced. I know that we can receive knowledge and truth directly from the Source of all truth if we seek it with all our hearts. That’s why I’m a Mormon.
I am not able to communicate what I have learned to another person; that knowledge can only come from God.
Regards,
Normandy
And that experience is subjective norm and is no different from those experienced by JWs, buddists, even islam - and all will claim it to be truth directly from 'God'.
Why do you think that God in the OT was so explicit in warning of those 'prophets' who would convince others to follow other 'gods', or in the NT warnings of those false prophets and teachers preaching some other gospel?
Is God a God of confusion? Smith taught that God's will was one man - one women, and instituted it as church DOCTRINE, while at the same time being married to over a dozen other women - many of whom were still married to their first husbands. This was under the command of a 'revelation' from this same God for his believers to follow in - as specified in D&C 132. It isn't hard to see that the 'prophet' was playing both ends against the middle. Why nine different versions of his 'first vision' over the course of 10 years or so - contradictory in regards to crucial components and elements - his age, message, who visited, location, etc.
No Norm, the bible teaches that our heart are deceitful and cannot be trusted. The bible also teaches that there are spiritual forces out there who desire to deceive us and misdirect our worship and attention AWAY from the true God. The bible also teaches there are humans who desire to direct our worship AWAY from the true God.
You affirm Monson as your prophet - tell me, what are your three favorite prophecies from him? Or at least one since he hasn't been on the job very long.
Young taught as scripture that Adam is heavenly father. Mormons at that time affirmed that teaching in a manner similar to you describe. Is that truth? Where in the Bible does it ever say that feelings are the way God communicates with us?
If only more honesty could prevail and all of my Mormon family would stop pretending they "know it is true". Honesty like old Ed Koch this morning came clean about Obama. The Coming Political Tsunami
I forwarded this to all my liberal family and friends who scoffed at me every time I told them two years ago what a big mistake they were making.
You just made me sin.
Envy. ;^)
You know I have always been curious, how is one elected a “prophet”?
Indeed.
We lived in Northern California for nearly forty years. California too is a beautiful place, however the majesty of southern Utah is quite overwhelming. Here, the locals take the scenery for granted and there are lots of really junky places with dead cars and trucks.
All we can do is lead by example and encourage one of our former employees (the Bishop) to bring it up from time to time how lucky they all are to be living here.
We will be doing lectures all winter to help folks understand our mission. We will also continue to have special services at daybreak on Sunday mornings.
Come on down!
I do think a “reunion” of sorts would be in order sometime. At your place of course!
I live in the High Desert, not much “scenery” here unless Joshua Trees and scraggly creosote bushes are high on your list.
Although, to be truthful, during rainy winters, the desert blooms beautifully.
LOL (shaking head)
In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it. (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 5, 1844)
In the very beginning the Bible shows there is a plurality of Gods beyond the power of refutation. It is a great subject I am dwelling on. The word Eloheim ought to be in the plural all the way through--Gods. The heads of the Gods appointed ONE God for us... (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 372)
“I learned a testimony concerning Abraham, and he reasoned concerning the Gods of heaven. ... Intelligences exist one above another, so that there is no end to them. If Abraham reasoned thus--If Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and John discovered that God the Father of Jesus Christ had a Father, you may suppose that He had a Father also. Where was there ever a son without a father? And where was there ever a father without first being a son? Whenever did a tree or anything spring into existence without a progenitor? And everything comes in this way. Paul says that which is earthly is in the likeness of that which is heavenly. Hence if Jesus had a Father, can we not believe that He had a Father also? I despise the idea of being scared to death at such a doctrine, for the Bible is full of it. I want you to pay particular attention to what I am saying. Jesus said that the Father wrought precisely in the same way as His Father had done before Him. As the Father had done before? He laid down His life, and took it up the same as His Father had done before. (Joseph Smith, Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 373)
Is it any wonder why the Mormon leadership teach their people to follow the Mormon prophet without questioning? ... I wonder how you reconcile the above fantasy with what the Bible teaches, Norm?
Oh my, joey is caught up in his words again. No, actually later prophets are caught up in those words. Smith never associated Jehovah with Jesus - later prophets did. Here, joey - referencing what current mormons understand as heavenly father - to represent plural gods, and not the singular heavenly father.
Is this his opinion? This is reportedly the man who saw 'God' in the woods and communed with them. If he is not credable on this point - then he is not credible on any point.
I'm glad you are quite sure of that.
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