Posted on 10/19/2010 8:21:21 AM PDT by Colofornian
In shopping around for a Cub Scout program for their two sons, ages 6 and 8, Jeremy and Jodi Stokes decided on the one at Christ Covenant Church in Matthews.
The Stokes, also of Matthews, weren't members of the evangelical megachurch, but they had many friends who were. And unlike the Cub Scout pack at their own church, which doesn't have a program for 6-year-old Tiger Scouts, Christ Covenant's was big enough to accommodate both of their boys.
The couple even signed up to be Scout leaders - he would lead the Bears, she'd help with the Tigers - when they discovered the church needed more adult help. And when the Scouting officials at Christ Covenant found out Jeremy Stokes was an Eagle Scout, they were thrilled.
So why, in the end, did Christ Covenant reject the Stokes' application to be Scout leaders?
Because they're Mormons. And, therefore, not real Christians, church officials told the couple last month.
The Rev. Gabe Sylvia, Christ Covenant's staff liaison to the Scouting program, confirmed the Stokes' account. He called them to apologize but defends the church's decision.
"Based on a once-over, informal scan, it looked like the Stokes would be good additions to our leadership," he said. "But when it became clear that they were Mormons, they could not become leaders in our pack. Mormonism is not consistent with historical Christianity."
That view - that Mormons are not Christians - is shared by other Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox Christian churches. Mormons, though, do call themselves Christians.
The Stokes were told their sons were welcome to join, and that they could volunteer. But as practicing Mormons, they couldn't be leaders.
Scout Council: It's unusual
Mark Turner, executive director of the Mecklenburg County Council of the Boy Scouts, said it's the first local instance he knows of where parents were rejected for Scout leadership on religious grounds.
What upset the Stokes family most was the church questioning their Christianity.
"It was so offensive," said Jodi Stokes, who was raised Catholic, then became a Mormon. "I have a picture of Jesus in my living room."
And, she added, look at the formal name of their church: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Jeremy Stokes, a Bank of America financial consultant whose family has been in the LDS (Latter-day Saints) church for generations, wrote this when asked on Christ Covenant's Scouting application to describe his relationship with Christ: "One of the most important things in my life is my faith and trust in Christ and in His Atonement. Without Christ's help and guidance, I know I wouldn't be the loving father or devoted husband or humble man I am today. His example is the one help I need and rely on every day and I am truly grateful for that."
Bishop Steven Rowlan of the LDS ward, or parish, which the Stokes attend in Weddington, acknowledged that Mormon theology diverges from some beliefs shared by most Protestants, Catholics and Orthodox Christians. But he insisted members of the LDS church are as Christian as the members of Christ Covenant.
"Yes, there are distinct differences," he said. "But not with respect to being a Christian. We definitely and truly are Christians in every sense of the word."
Not true, say Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox churches. They point to the LDS church's extra-biblical scriptures (Mormons abide by the Bible and the Book of Mormon). Mormons also reject the professions of faith, or Christian creeds, that are recited on Sundays in many Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant churches.
But the Stokes case raises another issue: Do Scout leaders or coaches of sports teams have to pass the same religious tests as, say, Sunday school teachers, if those troops and teams are chartered by houses of worship?
Packs at other churches
No is the answer at many churches, including Charlotte's largest - St. Matthew Catholic, with 28,000 members.
"We have Scout leaders of many faiths at St. Matthew," said Mike Nielsen, Scoutmaster of Boy Scout Troop 8. "Other than the Scoutmaster - that one job, which goes to a Catholic - I've never heard any mention of the faith of other (Cub Scout and Boy Scout) leaders."
But at Christ Covenant - the largest Presbyterian Church of America church in the Carolinas, with 600 families - the answer is yes.
"Boy Scouts is a ministry of our church," said Sylvia, the church's pastor for Christian Education and Young Families. "We want to insure that what (Scout leaders) believe is consistent with our denominational viewpoint."
For Sylvia, that at least means that Scout leaders must believe in the Apostles' Creed - a profession of faith dating back to the early centuries of Christianity.
Stelle Snyder, the spokeswoman for Christ Covenant, said it could even extend beyond that. A decade ago, she said, the church had to say no to a Catholic dad who wanted to coach one of the church's sports teams. Catholics, she said, often stress good works as the road to salvation more than many Protestants, who emphasize grace. And she said it's part of the role of coaches in her church's sports outreach program to share Bible stories.
"From the standpoint of ministering and representing the church, those people (coaches and Scout leaders) need to be on the same page," Snyder said. "In practice and intent, this is not meant to be unwelcome, unpleasant or unnecessarily legalistic. It's all for positive reasons. And it's not that Mormons have been singled out."
Turner, executive director of Mecklenburg's Boy Scouts Council, said Christ Covenant is within its rights as a chartering organization to apply additional leadership qualifications, as long as it also honors those the Boy Scouts insist on.
Some of the Boy Scouts' national guidelines have also been controversial and, to some, discriminatory. Because the Boy Scout pledge includes fealty to God and country, no atheists and agnostics can be members or leaders. Neither can homosexuals.
In Mecklenburg, Turner estimates 150 houses of worship charter Boy Scout troops and/or Cub Scout packs - a greater number than those sponsored by civic organizations, neighborhoods, and other groups.
Asked if other houses of worship apply theological tests for their Scouting leaders, Turner said he didn't know. "We're not asking that question out there," he said.
Should they?
"I think it's a good question," Turner said. "Scout leaders are mentors to young people, whether they're 7 years old or 13 years old. If that charter organization feels strongly about that and says our mission is to achieve 'X' objective through scouting, then it's OK for them to set these parameters."
Blatant racial discrimination would be another story, he said, with the council reserving the right to revoke any group's charter.
As for the Stokes family, Turner said, what happened was "unfortunate... We in the Boy Scouts want everybody - the whole family - to have a great experience, not a bad experience."
Stokes find Scouting home
Though the family pulled their sons out of the Christ Covenant scouting program, they have since signed up their 8-year-old for the smaller Cub Scout pack chartered by their Mormon ward in Weddington. The bishop has named Jeremy Stokes the pack Cubmaster and Jodi Stokes chair of the Scout committee.
"My little guy (the 6-year-old) can't join, so he tags along," his mother said.
Nationally, the Mormon church has a close relationship with the Boy Scouts of America. What is the Mormon church's rules about appointing Scout leaders?
Mormon Bishop Rowlan, who heads the Stokes' Weddington church, would not say whether he would be open to naming a non-Mormon as a Scouting leader.
"I'd have to take each one on an individual basis," he said, adding that that is the policy of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
At Christ Covenant, meanwhile, Rev. Sylvia and spokeswoman Snyder said the Stokes case will prompt the church to clarify policies that were always understood, but not necessarily written down.
"There's a need for us to be much more specific, so that it's clear whoever is in a leadership position is consistent with what Christ Covenant teaches," said Snyder.
the reason Mormons are not Christians is because they do not believe in an extra-biblical doctrinal statement.
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AH NOOOOO
that would be...
the reason Mormons are not Christians is because they DO believe in an extra-biblical doctrinal statement.
or 2 or 12...
But that would not be the only reasons...
You are so uninformed....
Mormons are polytheists and gnostics.
They have a false gospel and a counterfeit Jesus.
THAT is funny.
And I’m glad you are getting involved. All youth programs need good men.
Are you asking me, or this church?
This church pointed both to extra-biblical revelations like the Book of Mormon (what their pastor said) and the Apostles creed (what their other churchworker said).
Of course, your point is obvious: You're saying, in effect, that first this church condemns the Mormons for adhering to extra-biblical revelations but then demands that you subscribe to a separate extra-biblical statement of faith.
So let's first talk about that.
#1, MANY churches and parachurch organizations demand as a condition of employment that you adhere to a statement of faith that may sum up parts of the Bible but is not in and of itself direct "scripture." And with greater filters being placed by churches, it often extends down to volunteer positions. I mean that's not unusual.
#2...what would you otherwise suggest? That a church have you read the Bible afresh, and then ask if you believe everything in it?
Unfortunately, in the case of what I call, "closed-eye Mormonism," it wouldn't help Mormons to see the vast distinctions of what they believe vs. what the Bible says. They somehow just gloss over glaring differences.
Examples:
(a) Do they believe God created everything from nothing (Hebrews 11:3)? (No Mormons believe God and Jesus only "organized" matter -- but didn't create it from nothing.)
(b) Have their leaders taught that Jesus is the only savior --like what John taught? (No. Brigham Young taught that all worlds have their own savior, and Lds "prophet" John Taylor taught that Mormons are "saviors," too via baptizing dead people)
(c) Have their leaders taught that only Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life? (No. One of the highest men in the hierarchy of the church in the 50s and 60s, Marion G. Romney, said that the LDS church is "the way, the truth, and the life.")
Anyway, you get the picture. The creeds were developed to define distinctions between orthodoxy and heresy. And since Mormons have redefined most biblical words...
...from damnation to "the fall" in the garden, to "salvation" to what an "heir" is, to "grace"...etc...
...then qualifying statements that sum up the Bible are needed.
So says the Bible.
Again, Mormons ARE NOT CHRISTIANS in any way shape or form. That isn’t my opinion, that is biblical and historical.
Mormons are polytheists and gnostics.
They have a false gospel and a counterfeit Jesus.
Many believe that polytheism, gnosticism and
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
paganism were promulgated at Nicea in 325 CE.
Not all Christians feel the way you do toward Mormons. Fortunately...
I agree with all that. As for where Eden was physically located I have no idea. I'm pretty sure Jackson County hadn't been incorporated at the time, though.
LOL
The irony always is that an article like this offends various people's "tolerance button" inside of them.
In fact, they become soooooo "tolerant" that they have to foist their "tolerance" upon those whom they just can't "tolerate."
Hence, they call in the feds, and we all learn a lesson in "tolerance" modeled by an intolerant govt called in by the intolerant "tolerant" squad acting in the name of "tolerance."
All by the people who sniff out any scent of "intolerance" in others...yet if they've been wearing their protective underwear for three years straight minus any washing, have lost the ability to catch what their internal wardrobe actually smells like!
For a read on what A. Campbell thought of j.smiths writing
Man, that’s killer! Not sure about those type of hikes, I’ll leave that to the young men. I ain’t the man I used to be.
Thumbs up!! Thanks. The same to you.
One man does not a pattern make.
- - - — - - -
Nope, but there is more than just one man...
www.mormonabuse.com
More like sadly. If they did then more Christians would be concerned about telling Mormons the truth about Jesus rather than adopt a live and let live attitude.
It is not fortunate that there are Christians that feel this way, indeed it is a tragedy, for in lacking the courage of their conviction they are willing to stand by as otherwise good people waltz into the gates of hell that Christians know in fact exists.
I have read it.
Again, I know that Campbell disagreed with Smith, but that does NOT preclude that Rigdon (and Smith through Rigdon and other former Cambellites) used many of Campbell’s teachings and doctrines as a basis for Mormon theology.
placemarker
The Church has a DUTY to protect itself from wolves in sheep’s clothing. Nothing wrong with that.
The family would have been allowed to participate, just not be in leadership. They weren’t shunned.
The Ekklesia are all who have called out by YHvH.(Deu 4:10) We are to love others as ourselves.(Lev 19:18) YHvH calls whom ever He chooses.(John 10:26-30)
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
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