Posted on 10/08/2010 3:51:38 PM PDT by Colofornian
We stepped outside on Sunday for our ritual family walk.
I immediately heard shouts from my kids.
"Mom, the neighbor kids are riding their bikes on Sunday!"
We have had this conversation a thousand times: Our family has rules that don't apply to other families. They go to different churches. All churches are good.
We are in that stage with our children where we try and do the delicate balance of teaching them correct principles without turning them into Pharisees for the rest of the neighborhood.
I'm sure you've all had that experience where you go out to a restaurant, your child stands up in the booth and yells across the room, "That man over there is smoking!" And you whisper between clenched teeth, "That's OK. They don't know better. We don't judge others. Sit down, please."
We're not big soda drinkers, so every time our kids see an aluminum can emblazoned with the Coca-Cola symbol, they go into hysterics. The same goes for coffee makers. My oldest son was crushed when he discovered that his beloved kindergarten teacher drank a cup of coffee every morning.
It's a tricky thing, this teaching business. I feel strongly that our children need to learn right from wrong. If we don't teach it to them, they'll learn to judge by the world's standards, which at the moment are pretty low.
So we teach them about honoring the Sabbath, keeping the Word of Wisdom, sharing their toys, being baptized and growing up with very specific commandments.
We couch it all by trying to explain that these are our beliefs and our family rules. They only apply to us. But children see things in black and white.
So they trudge into the house, as my son did on a recent afternoon, looking very dejected.
"Mom," Jackson said, "Jimmy doesn't want to join our church. He only reads the Bible, even though it's incorrect. And he said he believes in one hundred different gods. I don't know if we can ever be friends again."
I put my arm around his shoulder.
"Jimmy is Catholic," I told him. "Catholics are wonderful. He believes in one God. He was probably referring to Catholic saints. And your friendship with Jimmy is not over. You can be friends with all people." Jackson shrugged and looked relieved.
"OK, well I'm going out to play."
These are important conversations. It shows that my kids are actually trying to ponder and fit their own belief system in a world filled with various ideologies. I believe it's an important step in religious development.
And sometimes kids simply have to learn the hard way.
When I was 9 we visited family in Washington State. A group of us cousins gathered around my cousin Darcy for some sobering news.
"Grandma and Grandpa smoke!" she told us.
This was an absolute shock. Didn't they know about the Word of Wisdom, not to mention lung cancer?
We decided Grandma and Grandpa needed to be informed. We ran inside and drew "No Smoking" signs on paper plates.
Then we gathered outside in a circle around Grandma and Grandpa's trailer and chanted "PEOPLE THAT SMOKE— ARE PEOPLE THAT'LL CHOKE!"
We bellowed and marched, determined to educate our grandparents and bring them back to the fold.
My grandparents didn't say a word to us. They were so offended they simply packed their bags and drove back to Florida.
That day I learned a whopping lesson in tolerance and love. My grandparents were outstanding people. They were fully aware of the Word of Wisdom and lung cancer. It was not my place to judge them. More than a decade later, they were present at my marriage in the Portland Oregon Temple. They remained faithful to the gospel until the end of their lives.
How to explain these shades of gray to my children?
At the recent General Relief Society Broadcast, President Monson gave a remarkable talk on judging others.
It was a reminder to me that I teach my children right and wrong, but they learn to apply love and tolerance by watching my day-to-day actions. The application doesn't always happen in an instant. Sometimes it takes years for our children to really grasp these principles.
In the meantime, I will continue to gently remind my children that it is not their job to call the neighborhood kids to repentance. You can ride bikes on Sunday and still go to heaven. You can drink coffee and still be a fantastic kindergarten teacher.
You can smoke and learn to forgive an obstinate granddaughter brandishing a paper-plate sign, and love her enough to be present at her wedding.
The learning continues for all of us. You're never too old to stop judging.
I believe I “hear” a proud mama trying to disguise her pride in false concern for her children’s “righteousness.”
Uhmmm that’s how religious people have to brag
Drinking coffee...
Riding a bycycle on Sunday...
Oh woe is us...
The world is going to Hell fast and in a hand basket...
What to do ??? What to do ???
Well, what do you think of this exchange this Mormon journalist mom had with her son about Catholics?
From the article: "Mom," Jackson said, "Jimmy doesn't want to join our church. He only reads the Bible, even though it's incorrect. And he said he believes in one hundred different gods. I don't know if we can ever be friends again." I put my arm around his shoulder. "Jimmy is Catholic," I told him. "Catholics are wonderful. He believes in one God. He was probably referring to Catholic saints. And your friendship with Jimmy is not over. You can be friends with all people." Jackson shrugged and looked relieved.
What do you think of Jimmy's ironic comment about Catholics having "one hundred different gods" [what his mom clarified to be "saints"] when Mormons themselves have...
...the Mormon father-god (1)
...his wife, the mom-god (2)
...his first son, the savior-who became a god (3)
...the Holy Ghost, who's a god despite not having a body (4)
...the Mormon grand-god -- the one who organized the father-god (5)
...the "council of gods" or what Joseph Smith also referenced as the "heads of the gods" (6 through ?)
...and then all of the Mormons who supposedly became gods (millions more???)
Now there's a Mormon kid who's yet to have his seminary lessons...lessons, BTW, that even most Mormon adults haven't bothered to digest.
So, for any of you Mormons who've missed those lessons, here ya go:
“The doctrine of a plurality of Gods is prominent in the Bible. The heads of the Gods appointed our God for us…you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves…the same as all Gods have done before you…” Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 370-372, 346
"Brethren, 225,000 of you are here tonight. I suppose that 225,000 of you may become gods" Lds "prophet" Spencer Kimball (from a speech published in The Ensign, November 1975, 1980).
Well, even this needs delineation with the way we mark a day in modern times.
The Jewish "Sabbath" day actually began on our Fridays...sundown...and went til sundown on Saturdays.
So even those who are legalistic about what day the Sabbath appears on -- if they're wanting to be consistent with the OT Jewish Sabbath -- should ensure they are celebrating/recognizing it from sundown to sundown...which would "free up" Saturday nights and consecrate Friday nights.
I've tried to pin Mormon's down on this one and I have yet to get one to actually admit to it. I think their theology demands it but from our point of view, not necessarily theirs. I will happily trumpet anything I think Catholics actually believe, I can't understand why Mormons wouldn't be the same about what they believe.
For instance, if someone asks me if I pray to Mary I'll answer "absolutely" and not bother with distinctions some Catholics make about praying "through" her or what have you. I'm not here to make my beliefs more palatable to non-Catholics. I tell her I think she's wonderful and I ask her for help, just like I do with my own mother... and my wife for that matter (good grief that was almost suicide). If Mormons believe what we all suspect they believe why won't they just come out and say it so we can move on from there?
I'm beginning to suspect that this plurality of gods, and their god-the-father being an elevated man, etc, etc. stuff might be a whole lot of smoke screen along the lines of "Catholics believe in salvation by works". I've spent so much time having people misrepresent what I believe that I'm beginning to have a bit of sympathy for Mormons.
On the other hand they might just be crazy, I don't know.
The article left me with the same impression - that kids need to learn to tolerate the beliefs of others. OTOH the intolerance shown by some FReepers towards LDS reminds me of antisemitism. “Live and let live.”
I like to “double dip” by honoring both Sabbath and Sunday. Some weekends I attend multiple services at different houses of worship. My Holy Spirit gets “topped off”, which seems to scare the devil out of me. LOL.
>>OTOH the intolerance shown by some FReepers towards LDS reminds me of antisemitism.<<
I agree, but to say so usually elicits a litany of Bizarre Things Mormons Believe - which I guess is supposed to shock me and instill a sense of outrage that Mormons dare to exist. The crazy part is that these are overwhelmingly peaceful, law-abiding people who make no trouble for anybody. With all the heinous, destructive people in the world, you choose to take on MORMONS? There really is something wrong with this picture.
What is Irish foreplay?
Brace yourself, Bridget!
Not dangerous if you don’t value your soul.
Not dangerous if you don’t value your soul.
I think we learn something about people from who their enemies are. The vocal opponents of Mormonism have done more to convince me that my own suspicions about Mormons are probably unfounded than anything an actual Mormon ever said.
That being said I still think they mistranslated "Jesus" into "Cheeses" somewhere along the line, whereas their enemies seem to have translated "love" into "spastic insanity with a side of malice"... which one would think would be a difficult mistake to accomplish.
Of course, you elaborate a worldview which apparently assumes the only kind of destruction is physical or tied to physical death.
A Mormon FReeper once said: Only a fool fights in a burning house.
(to which I responded): only a fool thinks the "brush fire" here on earth is the three-alarm, city-wide meltdown that hell represents.
You see, Felix, we Christians take our cultural cue from a certain "Lord" named Jesus Christ, right?
And Jesus indicated we have more to fear than simply "heinous, destructive" people on earth:
"I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him." (Luke 12:4-5)
So does Jesus say, "fear the heinous destructive" people? (No)
Instead, does He say to exercise fear of the One who has authority to cast somebody into hell? (Yes)
So, indeed, our "fear" is on behalf of those who are placing their eternal spiritual lives at risk.
As the apostle Paul was leaving the church of Ephesus, he warned them with this high-priority alert:
"I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them. So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears." (Acts 20:29-31)
Paul's cultural priority? (Defend against the false disciples who will proselytize the flock and draw away men unto themselves!)
Tell me something, Felix: If you did something tearfully night and day for three years, do you think it's rather important?
I mean, here was the man who contributed a good chunk to the New Testament and he seemed to be rather focused -- on a daily intensity level -- to the reality that spiritual destruction actually exists! (Wow! What a novel concept for "overtolerant" Americans!)
So. I guess, I'll take Paul's and Jesus' already-revealed priorities to others' patchwork guesswork.
I never heard that one! Funny! As always, I seem to have run into a lot of humorless folks at FR who took my original post SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO seriously. Thanks for lightening it up.
Some folks took my original post WAY too seriously - although I’m loving the Irish sex jokes posted, including yours. If they read my post correctly, they’d know I was talking about the working-class Irish-American Catholics of NYC of my childhood, not the good folks of the Emerald Isle...
Does their BISHOP know of this ATTITUDE?
I feel strongly that our children need to learn to be CONTROLLED by the Church, and NOT learn of the FREEDOM that there is in Christ.
They've GOT to be carefully taught!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lNqqvAv2SA
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