Posted on 10/08/2010 10:05:40 AM PDT by Paragon Defender
One of many easily found writings on the subject from a viewpoint other than that of an Anti-Mormon activist like those that dwell on this board - PD:
"I Have Said, 'Ye are Gods'": Concepts Conducive to the Early Christian Doctrine of Deification in Patristic Literature and the Underlying Strata of the Greek New Testament Text
Abstract: In this paper, I cite several statements of the Early Christian Fathers with respect to the doctrine of deification, giving evidence that this doctrine had wide geographical distribution among both orthodox and heretic alike from the early post-apostolic period to the end of the third century with little variance of wording and no evidence of being formulated through councils of any kind--something that could only have occurred so early in time if deification of man were actually a doctrine taught early on in the pages of Christian history presently lost to us.
(The article goes on in much detail at the link)
(Excerpt) Read more at fairlds.org ...
Ok, you cite the apostle John, but John wasn't a Mormon, let alone a temple Mormon.
And you cite John saying that the children of God will be like he is, implying that they will become gods.
Yet the vast overwhelming # of people aren't earth aren't even Mormon.
And perhaps only 20% of Mormons are temple Mormons.
Which means only a sliver of your "children of God" reference are going to live in Heavenly Father's presence, per Mormon beliefs. (Only temple Mormons do that)
So, why SD, don't 99.99999% of the children of God don't get to live with their Heavenly Father for eternity if they are all His children????
:)
(Yeah, I heard he was thinking about changing his moniker to Paragon Ecumenicalist...but then he'd have to do some research for twice and change all of his spam links)
Ya beat me to it!
I’ll have to quit doing WORK around this place and just sit at my keyboard all day long!
The issue was the tone of your words and then declaring an ecumenical thread...
You really need a class in reason and logic don’t you.
Your weak attempts at antagonism are almost laughable. But alas they are only sad.
My tone was fine. I merely stated a fact.
Mormons are Christians..
There I fixed it for ya..
Is rubber / glue next?
Precisely why I continue to provide it.
On what subject?
It isn’t on Mormonism, you only give links to anti Mormon materials.
Well I guess in a way you do then...
Between that and demonstrating the truth that LDS apologist of every stripe are playing games and such you do us a great service.
Thanks...
oh you are a bit slow(er) today. I have stated several times I am not an apologist. But if you go to the links I provide that help you learn some truth you will find some there. I am sure they would be happy to school you a wee bit. ;-)
Hey Saundra! Decided to wade into the anti-Mormon gang blabberfest eh?
Thanks for the scripture!
Hey Sandra! Is that scripture translated correctly? How do you know?
I despise Mormon witchery... but that was a bit interesting.
Look out Saundra you caught the eye of Colo!
Funny how they claim to know Mormon beliefs and then post such silliness that has obviously not been thought out at all. It’s this kind of slight doctrine twisting that leads the unsuspecting astray and why I post my links.
If anyone is really curious and/or desires to know the truth of these matters. The FreeRepublic board is hardly the place to go.
Here’s a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint. The vast majority of the issues brought up can be found and addressed at http://www.fairlds.org/ I have found but here’s more.
http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/
It’s been a few years since I have argued doctrine on FR. This thread caught my eye because I like this subject and there is plenty of clear supporting scriptures in the Bible.
Remember, Jesus used the same defence of “Ye are gods” when the pharasis accused him, a “man”, making himself a god. Was Jesus misinterpreting scripture too? Or, was Jesus right that it is not blasphemous to call ourselves gods?
In all of nature, a child grows up to be like his father. A dog does not grow up to be a human or some other species. We are the same type of being or species as God because we are his children and he is our Father. Christ didn’t die just so that we can go to heaven. He died so that we can be spiritually and physically perfect as he is perfect and gain ALL that the Father has. God did not sin ever. God became man and still did not sin. God died for us so that we can be cleansed from our sins and become like Him. It was an infinite and eternal sacrifice for his children.
Fundamental LDS who adhere to D&C 132 are Mormons..
Good news for Christian people:
“Beloved, now are we the children of God, and it is not yet made known what we shall become. We know that when he appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him just as he is. And everyone who has this hope upon him is purifying himself just as that (one) is pure.” (1 John 3:2-3)
______________________________________________
Not so good for mormon people...
Mormons dont believe the Christian Bible...
The Mormon doctrine of eternal progression teaches that God the Father was once a man, who progressed to Godhood through obedience to certain laws and ordinances. Part of this obedience involved getting married to a woman ("The Heavenly Mother"), who gives birth to God’s spirit children, who are sent to earth to inhabit bodies of flesh and bone. These spirit children, if they are Mormons, remain obedient to the laws of the Mormon Church, and are married in the Mormon temple, have the potential to become gods themselves. They will produce spirit children and rule their own planet. This process is then repeated.
The logical implications of this are as follows:
--The present God the Father and Heavenly Mother would themselves have had a Heavenly Father and Mother in existence before them, and they a Heavenly Father and Mother before them, and so on and so fourth. Indeed, not only does this logically follow through in Mormon theology, but many LDS leaders have specifically taught that the present God and Father had a Father above Him, and He above Him, etc. 1
--God the Father would have had to worship and pray to His God and Father as we do to Him.
--If the present God and Father of this planet is worshipped and prayed to by His spirit children, and if Mormon males hope to become gods in the same way, their spirit children would likewise pray to and worship them!
[At this point it is worth bearing in mind that the Bible says nothing about an infinite number of god’s past and god’s to come. On the contrary, Isaiah 43:10 is very clear when God states: "Before me no God was formed and neither will there be one after me." There was no god before God and there will certainly be no gods after Him. He is "the God of gods" (Deut. 10:17; Ps. 136:2; Dan. 2:4, 11:36). That is to say, although there are certainly so called "gods" in existence (1 Cor. 8:5), they are not true God by nature (Gal. 4:8). There is only one true God (John 17:3). ]
--If temple marriage is essential to becoming a god, as Mormons claim, then God the Father would likewise have been required to be married in a temple. Of course, there is nothing at all about this in the Bible.
--Jesus would have to have been married in a temple, otherwise He could not have been exalted and become a god (Christians believe He was always God, and not a god, but The God.). There is nothing at all in the Bible about Jesus being married in a temple, or even married outside a temple. Indeed, the Biblical temples were not even used for temple marriage, but for purification rites, and animal sacrifices.
--Some LDS leaders have not only taught that Jesus was married, but that He was a polygamist! 2
--If families are to be sealed in the temple as a family unit, to be a "family forever", what if one of those family members does not remain obedient to the Mormon faith? How can they remain together as a family, if some members of that family are disobedient?
--Bill McKeever of Mormonism Researched Ministry makes an interesting observation about eternal families. He asks how it can be that a Mormon family can stay together forever in eternity if, for example, the children of that family go on to become gods themselves and rule their own planets? Those family members could not be together if they are each ruling their own planets.
Footnotes
1. "We were begotten by our Father in Heaven; the person of our Father in Heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by His Father; and again, He was begotten by a still more ancient Father; and so on, from generation to generation, ... we wonder in our minds, how far back the genealogy extends, and how the first world was formed, and the first father was begotten" (Orson Pratt, The Seer, p.132).
"Some people are troubled over the statements of the Prophet Joseph Smith.... The matter that seems such a mystery is the statement that our Father in heaven at one time passed through a life and death and is an exalted man. This is one of the mysteries.... The Prophet taught that our Father had a Father and so on. Is not this a reasonable thought, especially when we remember that the promises are made to us that we may become like him?" (Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 1, pp.10, 12).
2."Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana of Galilee...We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into relation whereby he could see his seed [children] before he was crucified (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 82).
"There was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and on a careful reading of that transaction, it will be discovered that non less a person that Jesus Christ was married on that occasion. If he was never married, his intimacy with Mary and Martha an the other Mary also whom Jesus loved, must have been highly unbecoming and improper to say the best of it." (Orson Hyde, Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, p. 259).
"In the Church councils, it was spoken of: "Joseph F. Smith_ He spoke upon the marriage in Cana of Galilee. He thought Jesus was the bridegroom and Mary and Martha the brides."(Journal of Wilford Woodruff, July 22, 1883).
"The grand reason of the burst of public sentiment in anathemas upon Christ and his disciples, causing his crucifixion, was evidently based upon polygamy, according to the testimony of the philosophers who rose in that age. A belief in doctrine of a plurality of wives caused the persecution of Jesus and his followers. We might almost think they were Mormons (Jedediah Grant, Journal of Discourses, vol. 1, p. 346).
"One thing is certain, that there were several holy women that great loved Jesus, such as Mary and Martha her sister, and Mary Magdalene; and Jesus greatly loved them and associated with the much; and when he arose from the dead, instead of first showing himself to his chosen witnesses, the Apostles, He appeared first to these women, or at least to one of them--namely, Mary Magdalene. Now, it would be very natural for a husband in the resurrection to appear first to his own dear wives, and afterwards show himself to his other friends. If all the acts of Jesus were written, we no doubt should learn that these beloved women were his wives." (Orson Pratt, The Seer, p. 159).
“Mormonism is not a low view of God, and a high view of man”
Mormonism is a perverted view of God and a perverted view of man, neither of which is Biblical. Cults are like that.
Rubber and glue? ... How about a little exposure of your Mormonism DOCTRINES as taught by your MOmron leadership:
“Exposure”!! OOooh shock and awe! /YAWN
As usual the anti-Mormon writing is worded carefully to manipulate the reader.
Never the less, there is nothing new here (also as usual) as this has all been addressed a thousand times.
Any of the “issues” raised here are easily looked up and read about if anyone desires to know about them from a viewpoint other than that of an anti-Mormon activist.
The context is important. Keep in mind you are reading a translation of a book that was written to a people who completely reject what you believe.
You can't draw a conclusion from an isolated verse or verses in isolation. You'll miss the real message.
As it is you're already in muddy waters.
Mormons believe the Christian Bible. This makes sense since they are Christians.
Fixed that for ya friendly lady.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.