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Paper on Pope's Visit: "This was the End of the British Empire"
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| Friday, September 17, 2010
| Michael Barber commenting on British publication
Posted on 09/21/2010 3:49:00 PM PDT by Salvation
Whoa! Check out this reaction to the papal visit from one English paper (citing another). This visit is becoming of such historical significance it is hard to keep up with all the firsts.
I am going to embolden some points:
How odd that it should be the Guardian that grasped the magnitude of what happened yesterday. Andrew Brown, religion editor of Comment is Free, and the possessor of an intellect as mighty and muddled as that of Rowan Williams, writes:
This was the end of the British Empire. In all the four centuries from Elizabeth I to Elizabeth II, England has been defined as a Protestant nation. The Catholics were the Other; sometimes violent terrorists and rebels, sometimes merely dirty immigrants. The sense that this was a nation specially blessed by God arose from a deeply anti-Catholic reading of the Bible. Yet it was central to English self-understanding when Queen Elizabeth II was crowned in 1952 [sic], and swore to uphold the Protestant religion by law established.
For all of those 400 or so years it would have been unthinkable that a pope should stand in Westminster Hall and praise Sir Thomas More, who died to defend the popes sovereignty against the kings. Rebellion against the pope was the foundational act of English power. And now the power is gone, and perhaps the rebellion has gone, too.
This was indeed a day of unthinkable events. Many Protestants will have been disturbed to see Pope Benedict XVI in Westminster Hall praising St Thomas More (who incidentally died to defend what he saw as the sovereignty of God). I dont agree, however, that rebellion against the Pope was the foundational act of English power. Brown is a Left-wing agnostic whom one would expect to be suspicious of a national myth; but here we go again were told that England discovered its identity as a result of the Reformation. Actually, English industry and culture flourished under the spiritual patronage of Rome; if the country had remained Catholic, they would have continued to do so. (In Germany, cities that remained Catholic were as prosperous as those that become Protestant.)
Indeed, if you want evidence of the self-confidence of our Catholic national identity, look no further than Westminster Abbey and Westminster Hall. For at least the first 500 years of its existence we cant be sure when it was founded the Abbey was obedient to Benedicts predecessors. So for the Pope to enter it today was an affirmation of its own foundational act. Not for nothing did he point out in his address that the church was dedicated to St Peter. Even Catholics who would never be so crude as to say the Abbey belongs to us, not to you sensed that history was being re-balanced in some way. They realised that the Pope had as much right to sit in that sanctuary as the Archbishop of Canterbury (who, to be fair, showed the Holy Father a degree of respect that implied that he, at least, recognises the spiritual primacy of the See of Peter even if he rejects some of its teachings).
Of course Im not denying that for centuries anti-Catholicism was central to English self-understanding, even if it took nearly a century of harrassment and persecution to suppress the old religion. And there are still pockets of intense hatred of Rome in English society today. The difference is that the only anti-Catholics with influence are secularists who arent interested enough in the papal claims even to find out what they are. (Im thinking of Peter Tatchells amazingly ignorant Channel 4 documentary.) They hate religion and they pick on Catholics because theyre the softest target. Protestant anti-Catholics, in contrast, dont have mates in the media or useful allies in the Church of England. All they can do is watch in horror as the Pope of Rome processes into the church where Protestant monarchs are crowned, declares unambigously that he is the successor of St Peter with responsibility for the unity of Christendom, and then walks out again to hearty applause.
To be honest, Im still not quite sure what to make of it all myself. Benedict XVIs speeches are worth reading several times; they often turn out to be more radical than they first appear. But one thing is for sure. Despite the unassuming courtesy of the Popes manner, he didnt give an inch.
TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; History; Theology
KEYWORDS: catholic; catholiclist; england; freformed; popebenedictxvi
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Barber comments on publication from England.
1
posted on
09/21/2010 3:49:04 PM PDT
by
Salvation
To: Salvation
There’s only one problem. There’s no Ronald Reagan to stand up and say, “Mr. President, tear down this wall!”
To: nickcarraway; NYer; ELS; Pyro7480; livius; ArrogantBustard; Catholicguy; RobbyS; markomalley; ...
Indeed, the Pope took the English people by a quiet storm called love.
May God sustain the Pope!
3
posted on
09/21/2010 3:53:43 PM PDT
by
Salvation
("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
To: Salvation
The Pope’s way too late - at best, he’s third in line to take possesion of Great Britain, first behind the Communists and second behind the Muslims.
4
posted on
09/21/2010 3:55:23 PM PDT
by
Talisker
(When you find a turtle on top of a fence post, you can be damn sure it didn't get there on it's own.)
To: Salvation
Yep. B-16 is a heavyweight. ABC is an ultralight.
To: Salvation
“The sense that this was a nation specially blessed by God arose from a deeply anti-Catholic reading of the Bible”
Yeah, how many times is England mentioned in the Bible? I don't care how anti-Catholic you try to read the Bible, it is hard to read into it that an unmentioned Island inhabited at the time by unlettered pagan barbarians is specially blessed by God.
And did English history START with Henry VIII, the wife killer? There were no good Catholic English Kings worthy of mention before that august personage who broke with the Catholic Church over his desire for a male heir and ever younger strumpets in his bed?
6
posted on
09/21/2010 4:03:00 PM PDT
by
allmendream
(Income is EARNED not distributed. So how could it be re-distributed?)
To: Salvation
The British empire died in 1945, upon the elevation of Clement Atlee and the Labour party to the government.
7
posted on
09/21/2010 4:06:08 PM PDT
by
GenXteacher
(He that hath no stomach for this fight, let him depart!)
To: Salvation
I can’t help but think about the many English martyrs who prayed that this day would come.
8
posted on
09/21/2010 4:19:32 PM PDT
by
Slyfox
To: allmendream
Yeah, I love talking about Henry V, wonderful King. Everyone knows him. Devout Catholic who fought to reclaim France. :)
If only he’d lived and we’d never have heard about the Tudors.
9
posted on
09/21/2010 4:20:48 PM PDT
by
BenKenobi
("Henceforth I will call nothing else fair unless it be her gift to me")
To: Slyfox
10
posted on
09/21/2010 4:24:40 PM PDT
by
Salvation
("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
To: BenKenobi
Richard wasn't bad either, as far as a historic person, not so great for England; but then again he wasn't exactly English other than his father - who he hated and drove to his death over the imprisonment of his mother (and other concerns).
But come on, it isn't as if Henry VIII was the greatest of all English Kings, and English history begins and ends with his cleaving off from the Catholic church.
11
posted on
09/21/2010 4:27:57 PM PDT
by
allmendream
(Income is EARNED not distributed. So how could it be re-distributed?)
To: Talisker
The Church of England refuses to stand against the Muslims. I’m wondering if perhaps some in Britain are sensing that the last man standing against the barbarians is the Pope, and that they wish to be standing behind him. It’s just a sense that I have.
12
posted on
09/21/2010 4:32:47 PM PDT
by
Excellence
("A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it.")
To: Salvation
To: GenXteacher
Actually at some point in early 1943 the US Navy overtook the Royal Navy in number of capitol ships. Max Hastings (in Winston’s War as I recall) points to that as the end of the British Empire.
To: Salvation
Yes, pray for the Pope daily, as Our Lady Of Fatima specifically requested!
15
posted on
09/21/2010 4:40:16 PM PDT
by
J Edgar
To: atomic_dog
Very interesting.
From Trafalgar to 1943, Britain ruled the waves.
An Arab couldn't believe a man would follow a Queen. He told Laurence that ‘My king has a dozen cannons, how many does your QUEEN have?’. He gave some diplomatic answer, but my answer would be....... “Half.”.
“Half of a cannon?”
“No, of all the cannons that there are in the entire World, My Queen has half of them.”
That would be a reasonable assessment at the time, of the cannons worth having at least.
16
posted on
09/21/2010 4:40:18 PM PDT
by
allmendream
(Income is EARNED not distributed. So how could it be re-distributed?)
To: Talisker
I don’t know. Rome needs to start smacking down the phony liberal American Catholic Church for a start. The phony Notre Dame/Kennedy Catholics who voted for the Islamist and partial birth abortion.
However, the English people may have seen a flickering light. The majority of Brits want to emigrate because co-Islamsists B-LIAR and Browne sent the country down a path of hell. Rowan Williams chimed in with his surrender to sharia. A large silent majority of Brits do not want to go silently.
Hopefully Pope Benedict will awaken these Brits. Something happened during his visit.
To their credit, they have not elected an Islamist to rule them like TV watching idiots in another country brainwashed by TV.
17
posted on
09/21/2010 4:57:21 PM PDT
by
Frantzie
(Imam Ob*m* & Democrats support the VICTORY MOSQUE & TV supports Imam)
To: Talisker
Exactly, what UK Anglicans are discarding, others are not.
I do find the writer is more than overwrought as simply common sense would say there is a battle of Ideas not Might of the State as no one wishes to go back to the old way of a nice war every 50 yrs or so just to see who is who.
18
posted on
09/21/2010 5:18:57 PM PDT
by
padre35
(You shall not ignore the laws of God, the Market, the Jungle, and Reciprocity Rm10.10)
To: Salvation
What has this guy been smoking? The British Empire ended decades ago!
To: sailor4321
Or was the author talking more about the Church of England and using the phrase 00 the British Empire?
Should it read
Paper on Pope’s Visit: “This was the End of the Church of England”??
20
posted on
09/21/2010 5:34:17 PM PDT
by
Salvation
("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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