Forbidden Gates: How G.R.I.N Technology Will Change Spiritual Warfare - PART TWO

American Chronicle ^ | August 8, 2010 | Thomas R. Horn

[Eagle Eye]

You define the opposite of humility.

Although it didn’t require divine inspiration to recognize it, it is my calling to present it to you then up to you to deal with it.

[TwoLegsGood]

And this is personal abuse...

you don’t know me brother. Please refrain and stick to the subject matter at hand.

Thanks.

[Eagle Eye]

Your words are you.

I recognize the vanity and ego that is so strong it blinds you.

It is part of the spiritual battle that you deny rages at the highest levels.

And I have no reason be believe that you have the right to call me “brother”.

[MrDem]

The book “Needless Casualties of War” addresses your points well.

[wwcj]

I’m glad you put it to TwoLegsGood in the manner that you did.

He has attacked or talked down to all who have responded to him in this thread.

Thanks for helping to expose this persons filth that he tries to pass off as clean.

[SkyPilot]

never said we dont have power through the HS to confront evil, but I am not talking about some generic evil like sin in your life or habital things. I'm talking about direct confrontation of Satan and his minions. We are not to actively confront Satan ... when we encounter him we passively submit to God and let Him do the warfare. And Im not sure how you figure that the 3 epistle passages constitute a strawman; I know you are familar with the three passages mentioned. Do a search on Satan, devil, demon, serpent, etc. and look at what is taught in the epistles and what relates to spiritual warfare (i.e., dealing with Satan). Its just the three ... there is a common theme: submit to God, allow yourself to be strong (passive voice in the Ephesians passage) resist/stand against the devil ...

I really can't disagree with anything you said. When we submit to God, He is strong.

As you have alluded to, it is never about us, or any false power we think we might have - but His.

I do believe that His name, the name above all names, has power over evil. Because, behind that name, is His authority.

If this were not true, then John 14:13-14, John 15:16, John 16:23-26, and Luke 10:17 would be lies.

I think this is so obvious to any believer that I do not understand how there could be any confusion. But, it is good to sit down and reason with another on these matters.

The story of Cho, from the linked article on this thread, is but one example of the tangible power of the name Yeshua.

Ask any missionary who has worked in lands in bondage to paganism, demonism, animism, or occult mysticism.

This book by Merrill Unger, while written 37 years ago, is an amazing read. It is biblically based, well researched, and well written.

We may agree to disagree on some points here, but I want to commend you and thank you again for your thoughtfulness on this thread.

There is one poster in particular on this thread who didn't demonstrate that - and the difference in your posts, and those, is night and day.

Thanks.

[Eagle Eye]

Pigs don’t know that pigs stink.

[dartuser]

Judging from the book reviews on Amazon, I'm sure I would have major issues with the premises and conclusions of the author. Most of the reviewers say that the "real world experiences" were most convincing ...

The point I am trying to make is that you can never rationally converse with someone about Biblical doctrine if their experience is in contradiction to that doctrine. Just for example, suppose you are talking with someone about tongues, and your position is that tongues has passed away. If that person has had an experience of speaking in tongues it is unlikely your doctrinal explanation, no matter how masterful and Biblical it is, will convince them that what they have experienced is not real. "Since I have experienced it, it must be true, and it must be from God."

People who propose and teach abborant doctrine often claim they are having "revelations" from God.

Just a few months ago a person was up here claiming that God needs all of us to do His work on Earth because after Jesus resurrection He no longer had a physical body. The red flags immediately went up and the easy response was the words of Jesus after His resurrection ... "a spirit has not flesh and blood which you see that I have" ... but then explanation fell on deaf ears.

Doctrine is of fundamental importance ... too many folks these days are willing to ignore or substitute doctrine for unity or in persuit of a more exciting spiritual experience when the "formula" for Christian living is in the plain black and white text of the New Testament.

[MrDem]

Your point "WE are to resist the devil, and God does the battling for us." is the main point of the book.

[dartuser]

Unfortunately I cant agree on this particular work of Unger. Merril Unger was an incredible man of God, a graduate of Dallas Theological Seminary, a prolific writer, a world class OT archeologist. He wrote the classic text on Biblical Demonology; I have it in my own library; it is a solid treatise on the subject.

But later in his life he began to teach and preach something entirely different. The result was this book Demons in the World Today. Why a second book on demonology when the first book was still available? Because he changed his mind on many things based on the testimony of charismatic missionaries. He began to substitute the experiences ... instead of solid Biblical teachings of Scripture.

We must all do well to heed the words of Paul and pay strict and close attention to the doctrine we are teaching.

[dartuser]

Perhaps ... I havent read the book. But I made my judgement (perhaps too soon) based only on the comments of readers on Amazon who submitted reviews.

When I read “I met him at a dreams and visions conference” then I think I can guess where he is doctrinally.

But to be fair I will see if I can borrow it from someone and give it a look see.

[SkyPilot]

But later in his life he began to teach and preach something entirely different. The result was this book Demons in the World Today. Why a second book on demonology when the first book was still available? Because he changed his mind on many things based on the testimony of charismatic missionaries.

It sounds like you are repeating what you heard others say or have said. Did you come to that conclusion on your own, or did other accounts like this one influence you? Your post is startling similar to this one.

"DEMONS IN THE WORLD TODAY" -- Later in 1971 Dr. Unger presented another book, this one titled Demons in the World Today (Tyndale House Publishers). Why a second work on the subject of demonism, while the first, Biblical Demonology, is still in print? Did Dr. Unger change his mind? He certainly did; and not only his mind, but his method....In this book Dr. Unger quoted accounts given by missionaries and others, mainly Arminian and charismatic

I did disagree with his notion that believers can be possessed. But the book on the whole is a solid treatise on demonology, and contains accounts that should be read. Moreover, he doesn't drop scripture as many critics suggest. Scripture is cited throughout. Is it a perfect book. No, the bible is the only perfect book.

[SkyPilot]

By the way, unless you are Miles J. Stanford, and if I was a college professor, I could probably charge you with plagarism for Post#90.

[dartuser]

I have not read the second book for myself ... but having been a student at Baptist Bible Seminary I am certainly familiar with what happened to Unger; he is presented as a case study in what can happen to the most godly men if they are not diligent with their doctrine.

I just reiterated what I remember from the class notes, which is nothing spectacular. Someone wrote a paper long ago on the history of his “conversion” to the charismatic movement ... perhaps this is the work you are referring to ... I dont have an original source for his conversion.

While I wish I had time to read everything from everyone, I long ago had to decide to pick and choose; as Im sure you have had to do. I tend to reject the charismatic stuff unless I am doing specific study for a paper or Sunday School class ... so ... yes, my opinion is surely based on what I have heard, on what I know of charismatic doctrine, and experience vs doctrinal issues.

You have about reached the depth of my knowledge at this point lol.

[getbillnow]

Right after you explain in detail How God created the world, sustains the universe and by graces saves my soul.

But your question seems to imply that the Lord would not defeat the demonic and use his people to accomplish this task from time to time. The fact is through out scripture, that God delights in using fragile vessels (like us) to accomplish great things so that He alone receives glory.

Your serve Maam :).