Forbidden Gates: How G.R.I.N Technology Will Change Spiritual Warfare - PART TWO

American Chronicle ^ | August 8, 2010 | Thomas R. Horn

[TwoLegsGood]

No idea who that is. But do your homework before you start calling people names as there is a personal abuse rule on FR. Now go ahead and “study to show yourself approved unto a Holy God...” and look up the scary problem of Wagner/Engle etc. They are the nuts. Oh, and they tolerate perverts in their midst, too. Famous for it. Rick Warren calls C Peter Wagner his mentor.

Do your homework, thx.

[TwoLegsGood]

You know, I have not written on this for a while and I just want to add something

It is such a lazy man's Christianity to be able to blame a network of demons for all the problems in the world.

Besides being lazy and stupid, it is dangerous to ascribe to demons what is just the outgrowth of sin in the world. Sin that WE ALL ARE PRONE TO.

Once I can literally “demonize” someone or say they are filled with demons because they sin, I have made them less than human.

THIS is the danger.

This has always been the danger of the Church, and this sort of thinking is how people start wanting to burn people at the stake for their sins.

[dartuser]

I read the article ... I must say that the stories coming out of the charismatic movement get more sensational every month.

I remember talking to one of these deceived brothers about deliverence ministry and I asked a simple question. "Where did you get all this information about the names of demons, and what they look like, and what they do?" He said that he gets the information from people who are possessed. I asked "Where do they get it from?" He said, "at that stage of the deliverence its the demons who are talking through the man." I followed up with "dont you know that Satan is the father of lies and any information that you get from demons in a possessed person would be a lie?" And he promptly said "I make them tell the truth in Jesus name." My jaw dropped on the floor; you cant continue a theological conversation anymore at this point.

The simple fact is that Satan is a very powerful angelic being; perhaps the 2nd most powerful person in the created order. Only a warped theology could imagine a mere human in direct confronation with Satan. If you look at the 3 passages in the epistles that discuss the topic of how we confront Satan in the Church age (Eph 6:10-14, 1 Peter 5:6-11, James 4:6-7) there is a common theme: WE are to submit to God, WE are to resist the devil, and God does the battling for us. It is even more clear in the Greek ... the common word translated "stand, resist, resist" is the same root word ... and the passive voice in the Ephesians passage makes it clear that God is the one who is performing the action of "making strong."

I have seen what power theology does to the thinking of well-meaning believers; it changes their entire personality. They no longer focus on the savior of the world but are constantly studying demonology, exorcism, demonic influence, organization ... these people pour their entire lives into this. Attend one of their conferences and you will see what I mean. This "power of God at the fingertips of man" is unbiblical garbage.

[SkyPilot]

You're right. Everyone, besides you, is "lazy and stupid."

You don't even realize what big ego you have.

You come on this thread - spouting off about with your "Uh"s, and immediately accusing others of "praying down principalities" - when NO ONE used that phrase.....except one person.....you.

Next, did you even read the article Thomas Horn? Nothing he said violated scripture - in fact he quoted scripture throughout what he said to support his claims (Psalm 82, Acts 7:41–42, Psalms 96:5, 1 Corinthians 10:20). He is doctrinally sound. To wit - the inspired Word of God cited in Ephesians 6 is real, and true.

Rather than acting like the Christian you say you are, take a good look. This is you in this thread.

No one, no one here, claimed they are without sin, didn't recognize sin, seek to minimize our need for God's grace, or anything else you jumped to conclusions about.

You, on the other hand, can't seem to grasp the notion that there are demons, dark forces, satanic authorities, and spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Or at the very least - you have one hell of a way of not admitting it.

Are you this charming with everyone, or is this something new?

[TwoLegsGood]

Saying that people who follow a false theology of “demons under every rock” are lazy and stupid has nothing to do with my own stupidity or laziness...

it is just a comment on the entire false theology of it.

However, you are intent on making it personal.

Have at it.

[rawcatslyentist]

Thank You Satan 1:51☠

[TwoLegsGood]

Thank you. My own posts on the topic are sometimes reactionary because i still get calls from many of these nuts who think they are "Christians" and almost literally busted a gusset over the last call... this line of fake theology talked about in this thread somehow produces the meanest most prideful and useless religion imaginable.

Scary that these people are walking around amongst us. But the way you can tell is how they pray and deal with this issue of "principalities".. Oh and also you can tell by the lack of moral Christian character and love in their lives.

But yeah, I've had to confront someone who said they got the names of demons from a demonized person before... incidentally... all of these people... even the demonized ones... thought they were "Christian".

Loved what you wrote here and I totally concur: "... I have seen what power theology does to the thinking of well-meaning believers; it changes their entire personality. They no longer focus on the savior of the world but are constantly studying demonology, exorcism, demonic influence, organization ... these people pour their entire lives into this. Attend one of their conferences and you will see what I mean. This "power of God at the fingertips of man" is unbiblical garbage.

[wwcj]

where are the demons now that were here during the ministry of Jesus?

[Nosterrex]

Why is it that religion attracts so many crackpots? They just keep on coming. I guess they figure that if people will fall for Scientology and Mormonism, they will fall for anything.

[Cvengr]

IMHO, SkyPilot and yourself both expressed some sound doctrinal points, but were missing one another.

I agree with your position regarding those young believers who are too easily enticed into becoming warriors against Satan, rather than first feeding enough milk, then meat to stop being babies in Christ.

Nevertheless, some believers may have bumped into some very real spiritual fallen angels or other very real spiritual events, were shaken up, and now are hot for Christ, but focused upon spiritual warfare prior to being adequately trained, armed, and disciplined in their thinking to fight the fight by what God provides.

Through faith in Christ, all things are possible, so I don’t find it necessary to criticize those who are focusing on spiritual warfare. I also have found it wise to beef up on Bible doctrine, as a priority in our thinking, then whenever or wherever we might find ourselves bumping into adversity, we have the proper tools to handle the situation through faith in Christ.

[TwoLegsGood]

They are eternal beings. Their geographic locality is not something we can fathom because they inhabit the unseen spiritual realm, where time and physicality do not matter... all that DOES matter in their world is Holiness and Transgression.

This is the Bible emphasizes how, after the Cross, we have in our power to overcome them through submitting to God; in other words, resisting Satan’s temptation to sin through the power of the Holy Spirit.

In a roundabout way to answer the questions raised on this thread...

... the true portrait of “spiritual warfare” or how we are to deal with the Enemy is what Jesus did in the forty days temptation in the desert.

[TwoLegsGood]

You could be right.

All I know is that God never “tries us beyond our strength”

and this includes supernatural situations.

God will NEVER put a believer in a supernatural or spiritual situation that is beyond their capability to deal with it.

Every time I have seen a demonized person, and believe me, at times it was almost humorous in context, it was because the Lord set up the situation to show me something and so I would take some action on it.

These fake macho spiritual warfare pyrogenics is dangerous, stupid and fruitless in our fight against sin. It produces the most horrendous lack of moral fiber and moral character in people as they obsess on it.

The stories I could tell about these crazies... it’s like God is just letting them twist in the wind of their own delusions.

[wwcj]

do you think that evil spirits can no longer inhabit humans?

[wwcj]

okay, so you have actually seen a person with a demon? where?

[TwoLegsGood]

From what I have seen of the men of this movement, it is a spiritual impotency.

They think it’s “macho” to swear at demons and to delude themselves into thinking that they of themselves have some power to affect devils.

[wwcj]

you wrote, “This is part of the lesson of Jesus in the Garden when He said He would not command angels to rescue Him or fight for Him”.

Try backing this up with scripture.

If you can not, then you are guilty of....???

[Cvengr]

A very good article.

FWIW, KOSMOS, is the Greek word for “Order” or “World” or “rule”. The opposite meaning is the word “CHAOS” or disorder. Another meaning for world or administration or household is OIKONOMIA, a different more favorable meaning in Scripture, than KOSMOS.

The cosmic system is a system of governance which might be ruled independent of what God provides, hence it association with a ‘sinful’ state or a system which missing the mark or target of His Plan.

[Cvengr]

I agree. FWIW, I lso have run into other believers, who, IMHO, have been involved in Spiritual Warfare, and yes, they are targeted by adversarial persons, human and fallen angelic as well as their minions.

Where the believer under such attack is weak, is in areas of his past thinking which was performed frequently while performing human good, but still not through faith in Christ.

I’ve witnessed some well educated believers fall into that trap, then adversarially attacked in the worldly system, where their monetary income was threatened, then they might recognize their imperviousness to such threats, by being believers, but then succumbed to approbation lust, seeking instead to perform some fabulous worldly feat, (winning a Nobel Prize, or seeking recognition from peers and other authorities). If they didn’t return to God through faith in Christ, that approbation lust would drag them into psychotic behavior, removing them even further from worldly influence.

[wwcj]

you also wrote,

“Jesus tore down principalities for us on the Cross. It is not up to any individual Christian to address Principalities.”

and...”By our righteous actions, i.e. overcoming sin and dealing with our own propensity for sin...”

why is it that since His main reason for going to the cross was to secure us against the sin that seperated us...your argument doesn’t apply here with sin also?

You are using your own strange logic when you say that we don’t need to deal with principalities since Jesus did that for us, but we do need to deal with sin?

You got some explaining to do.