Posted on 09/02/2010 7:58:38 PM PDT by John Leland 1789
Baptisms
1. Israel's National Baptism unto Moses: Placing the Nation under Moses' leadership. 1 Corinthians 10:1-4; etc.
2. Divers Baptisms of Israel's Religion as given by God under the Law. Hebrews 6:2; Hebrews 9:10; etc.
3. Traditional "baptisms" (washings, etc.) of the ceremonies of the Jews: making void God's word. Mark 7:1-7; etc.
4. John's Baptism of Repentance with water. Acts 10:37; Mark 1:4; John 1:31; Matthew 3:11; etc.
5. Christ's Baptism in water to fulfill the Righteousness of the Old Testament Scriptures. Matthew 3:13-15; etc.
6. Christ's Baptism into Death. Luke 12:50; Mark 10:38, 39; etc.
7. Holy Spirit Baptism of Power performed by Jesus Christ as the Baptizer. Luke 24:49; Acts 1:4, 5; etc.
8. Baptism of Fire in Prophetic Judgment of Israel. Matthew 3:11; Isaiah 29:6; etc.
9. Pentecostal Water Baptism in the Name of Jesus for the Circumcision, the Nation of Israel. Acts 2:38; Mark 16:16; etc.
10. Trinitarian Baptism of the Uncircumcised Nations in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit during (or for Entrance into) the Reign of Christ's Kingdom on Earth. Ultimate fulfillment of use to be by Israelite/Jewish evangelists after the Church is removed, and Israel's prophesies are resumed directly.ÿÿTrinitarian baptism is used by the churches of this current age (an age of a predominantly Gentile Church) as a testimony of singular dependence on (faith in) the Death, Burial and Resurrection of Christ as the Saving Gospel. Matthew 28:28; etc.
11. Baptism by the Holy Spirit into Christ's Sufferings, and into the One Body ("one new man") of Christ. 1 Corinthians 12:13; Romans 6:3; Galatians 3:27; Ephesians 4:5; Colossians 2:12; etc.
Christ at His Comings
1. Advent, First. Genesis 3:15; Psalm 16:7-11; 22:1-21; Isaiah 7:14; Isaiah 9:6; Micah 5:2; Matthew ch. 2; Luke ch. 2; John 1:14; 2 Corinthians 5:14-16; Philippians 2:5-8; 1 Timothy 3:16; Hebrews 2:7, 9, 10; 5:7, 8; etc.
2. Advent, Second. Genesis 3:15; Psalm 2;ÿÿ22:22-31; Zechariah ch. 14: Matthew 24:3, 29 through 25:46; Acts 1:10,11; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10; 2:8; Hebrews 2:8, 12; Revelation 19:11-21; etc.
3. Our Gathering Together unto Him (Translation of the Body of Christ, the Church; commonly referred to as the "Rapture"). John 11:25, 26; 14:1-4; 1 Corinthians 15:51ff; Philippians 3:12-21; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 2 Thessalonians 2:1; 1 Timothy 3:16; etc.
THE RIGHT-DIVIDER'S POCKET STARTER.
>The Headings through this Pocket Guide are in alphabetical order, and sometimes the subjects logically overlap. The redundancies are found useful for cross-reference purposes.
Cool! How about Israel’s baptism in the Red Sea, or the two baptisms of Earth, one 4400 years ago or so (water), one coming soon to a theater near you (fire).
And the baptism of the earth through the deep between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 as well.
The baptism of Israel through the Red Sea is in the list.
Did you see the first installment of the series?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2581448/posts
No, I think this was my first ping on the series
Acts 10:37 that word you know, which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism which John preached;
Mark 1:4 John came preaching a baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
John was preaching repentance and then baptism but the remission of sins wasn't in the act of baptism it was through the repentance and Faith in God. I think baptism foreshadowing the death - burial - resurrection of our Savior Jesus Christ has always been there, but just not recognized.
I think this same phraseology used by Peter in Acts 2:38 is different because it is on the other side of the Cross.
John 1:31 I did not know Him; but that He should be revealed to Israel, therefore I came baptizing with water.
Just a thought that hadn't occurred to me before, but if Jesus's cousin John didn't know who He was before He began his ministry it provides more evidence that everyone was clueless including Mary.
Great series, lets talk! :-)
OK there is much to process here. I am in agreement with much of the begining of your post, but some of it I’m not sure what you are teaching, such as:
I think I agree with posts 1-8 about Israels baptisms, Israel practiced at least 12 types of baptisms through out times past and times to come.
What I am not clear on is the following, beginning at post 10.
“Trinitarian baptism is used by the churches of this current age”
There are no churches of this current age, there is only one church, the church the body of Christ. (Perhaps you meant to say religions of this age).
“(an age of a predominantly Gentile Church) as a testimony of singular dependence on (faith in) the Death, Burial and Resurrection of Christ as the Saving Gospel. Matthew 28:28; etc.”
This whole statement above is very confusing.
There are no predominantly gentile church today. (Gal3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus). Only one church today, The Church the Body of Christ.
You seem to be saying that baptism is a testimony of faith in the death, burial, and ressurection for Jew and gentile alike, (I can only presume you are talking about (water baptism), since at the referenced time there was (no baptism by the Holy Spirit). In the book of Matthew or any other of the gospels, did anyone know anything about salvation coming through the death burial and ressurection, this was still a secret being kept since the foundation of the world. BY THE WAY...there is no Matt 28 vs 28 in my King James Bible.
Bottom line I hope you do not believe that water baptism is to be practiced by believers today, if so you are sorely mistaken. The usual response I get when I say water baptism is not to be practiced in this dispensation is...Paul Baptised people. Such a response only demonstrates ignorance of right division, progressive revelation and proper handling of the Word.
NOW: Your post Christ at His Comings
1. Advent, First. Genesis 3:15; Psalm 16:7-11; 22:1-21; Isaiah7:14; Isaiah 9:6; Micah 5:2; Matthew ch. 2; Luke ch. 2; John 1:14; 2 Corinthians 5:14-16; Philippians 2:5-8; 1 Timothy 3:16; Hebrews 2:7, 9, 10; 5:7, 8; etc.
You are mixing up doctrines.
All these references: (Genesis 3:15; Psalm 16:7-11; 22:1-21; Isaiah7:14; Isaiah 9:6; Micah 5:2; Matthew ch. 2; Luke ch. 2; John 1:14); are prophecy and pertain only to Israel, about their coming Messiah. It was never prophesied thier Messiah would die for their sin, only that he would die.
All these references: are mystery,not be confused with prophecy (2 Corinthians 5:14-16; Philippians 2:5-8; 1 Timothy 3:16); and pertain to the Church the Body Christ...in this present dispensation.
These references: Hebrews 2:7, 9, 10; 5:7, 8 pertain to Israel and prophecy completely fulfilled, Heb-Rev.
We have no part in Heb-Rev this all occurs after we are caught up to be with the LORD. Times to come.
You Said:
3. Our Gathering Together unto Him (Translation of the Body of Christ, the Church;commonly referred to as the “Rapture”). John 11:25, 26; 14:1-4; 1 Corinthians 15:51ff; Philippians 3:12-21; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 2
Thessalonians 2:1; 1 Timothy 3:16;
Again you are mixing up doctrines: John 11:25, 26; 14:1-4 are prophetic and refer to Israel in the resurrection from the dead; that occurs when Christ returns to this earth.
These verses you qoute: 1 Corinthians 15:51ff; Philippians 3:12-21; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 2 Thessalonians 2:1; 1 Timothy 3:16; pertain to the rapture in this dispensation of Grace, a completely different event than the resurrection of the dead to be experienced by Israel, in a entirely different dispensation.
Thank you again for starting this thread: Grace and Peace.
If, at the moment of salvation, we are justified, sanctified, baptized into the Body of Christ, and sealed, all of these things BY the Holy Spirit, and seated in heavenly places in Christ, then there is no time, let alone reason for water baptism.
"and such were some of you; but ye ARE WASHED, but ye ARE SANCTIFIED, but ye ARE JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus, and BY THE SPIRIT of our God." (1 Cor. 6:11).
But this can only said in the dispensation of the Grace of God.
"There is ONE body, and ONE spirit, even as ye are called in ONE hope of your calling. ONE Lord, ONE faith, ONE baptism, ONE God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all." (Eph. 4:4-6).
The VERY most water baptism can do in this dispensation is simply make a person a member of a particular denomination.
Which is why Paul could say without reservation, "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, LEST THE CROSS OF CHRIST SHOULD BE MADE OF NONE EFFECT. FOR THE PREACHING OF THE CROSS is to them that perish foolishness, but unto us which are saved it IS THE POWER OF GOD." (1Cor. 1:17,18).
THIS is why water baptism passed off the scene and from the program of God. In the dispensation of grace, it the preaching of the cross and that alone that is proclaimed. Neither religious rites nor wisdom of words could or should be used to detract from the mighty accomplishments of Calvary.
Your #10 smvoice
Excellent Post! Very clear, concise and edifying.
Wow! I would love to have your notes on the twelve baptisms practiced by the Israelites. That would fit into the various baptisms practiced by the Jews in the outline.
The outline is not intended to be exhaustive; merely suggestive---after all, it's an outline. Some Scriptures are used in each section as illustrative, not forcing a position with regard to the texts.
I'm looking to learn and grow, and improve my expression of these things. Your contributions, including your criticisms are welcomed by me, believe me. I'm saving all posts.
All posts whether in agreement, or in modification mode, are very helpful to me. Not being disengenuous. I'm saving all posts, and making study sheets for my students -- asking them to consider your positions on the various texts. They have already been listening to me for four years. This is actually "graduate level" study for them.
As mentioned to PoloSec, it is outline only. Some of the passages in each sub point are illustrative and not necessarily forcing a position. It was designed for those just getting started in opening these things up.
So, your criticisms are as valuable to me as any agreement.
I just began experiencing some OS problems with my No. 1 computer I use for these purposes. My son is working on that now for me. I've shifted to a computer I usually reserve for making radio broadcasts we do for the Philippines.
But, I'll be ready to post the THIRD installment of the POCKET STARTER in a couple of days. I am only now learning the HTML to get it in outline form on this medium. READY or NOT . . . third part coming soon.
John thank you for your thread series.
I am often perceived as being contentious...I do not mean to be so, it just kinds of happens. My criticisms are meant to be constructive not contentious. Thanks for recognizing that.
In my previous post as you noted I said there were 12 baptism for Israel. I should have said 12 baptisms in the bible, one of those baptisms is for us today and not at all applicable to Israel (Baptism by the Holy Spirit).
I have no notes on those baptisms, however I am aware of at least five or six baptisms from my own studies and can present them here in fairly short order, the other six or seven may take some time to research. I can formulate them into a type of study format that would be useful to everyone on this thread.
I came across this study of the 12 baptisms while engaged in an entirely different study, realizing I was distracted from my study, I abandoned the article without bookmarking it for future reference, now I could kick myself. I have always been satisfied that we have one baptism today and was never interested in serious study of the subject. However I always knew I would have to deal with the subject one day. The subject of baptism seems to be very important to so many people, I guess its time to dive into the water...pun intended.
I am interest to know since I’m venturing into baptism, do you believe water baptism should be practised today? I have been water baptized three times.
Grace and Peace.
I must apologized...I responded to someone who asked me to tell them where the 12 baptisms were in the bible, I thought it was you.
You have already stated 11 of them in your post dated Sep 2 10:58pm. Referencing 11 of them...I’m not sure I could have found them all myself, you did a very fine job doing so.
Now I wonder who asked me that question...perhaps I am spending too much time on this computer.
Anyway please disregard my last post to you. Now I have probably confused you...I’m sorry about that.
I’ve been able to find this out of print book for several friends, my late Dad told me it was the best book he ever read on the subject. I highly recommend it, “Baptism in relation to the Atonement”, by Clarence B. Hayden.
I am a Baptist church pastor. I do baptize by immersion on the condition that believers understand that the only thing it does TO them is get them wet. What it does for others is to testify that they believe that they have already been co-crucified with Christ, co-buried with Christ, and co-risen with Christ.
Water baptism makes no person a MEMBER of ANYTHING, and is NOT a standard for fellowship or for service.
I have wrangled with Landmark Baptists and Briders and quasi-Baptist Briders over this for literally decades. They tend to make water baptism a Baptist SACRAMENT which I reject. And any person who feels that water does something for them as a means or channel of grace will not be baptized by me. I question folks hard on this issue.
I tend to avoid baptizing any children, unless they are unusually able to clearly testify how they have already been regenerated, and can clearly understand that being baptized in water can not enhance what they have in Christ one iota.
On that basis alone, I will baptize people in deep water.
I have served in a predominantly Roman Catholic country where, I believe, water baptism serves as a clear demarcation with regard to Christians' testimony to their own RC family members. It tends to testify to the RCs that the new Christian has made a clean break from Romanism.
I am also sensitive to the potentiality that Romanists will perceive our water baptism as just another sacrament performed apart from Rome. So I am willing to take criticism in that regard. But having served directly in that atmosphere, and where the new Christian is also able and willing to deal with this matter before their own RC family members, explaining to the them the difference, we have felt led to proceed. We trust that others will allow us this in grace as we feel led of the Lord.
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