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To: John Leland 1789; wmfights; presently no screen name; smvoice

OK there is much to process here. I am in agreement with much of the begining of your post, but some of it I’m not sure what you are teaching, such as:

I think I agree with posts 1-8 about Israels baptisms, Israel practiced at least 12 types of baptisms through out times past and times to come.

What I am not clear on is the following, beginning at post 10.

“Trinitarian baptism is used by the churches of this current age”

There are no churches of this current age, there is only one church, the church the body of Christ. (Perhaps you meant to say religions of this age).

“(an age of a predominantly Gentile Church) as a testimony of singular dependence on (faith in) the Death, Burial and Resurrection of Christ as the Saving Gospel. Matthew 28:28; etc.”

This whole statement above is very confusing.

There are no predominantly gentile church today. (Gal3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus). Only one church today, The Church the Body of Christ.

You seem to be saying that baptism is a testimony of faith in the death, burial, and ressurection for Jew and gentile alike, (I can only presume you are talking about (water baptism), since at the referenced time there was (no baptism by the Holy Spirit). In the book of Matthew or any other of the gospels, did anyone know anything about salvation coming through the death burial and ressurection, this was still a secret being kept since the foundation of the world. BY THE WAY...there is no Matt 28 vs 28 in my King James Bible.

Bottom line I hope you do not believe that water baptism is to be practiced by believers today, if so you are sorely mistaken. The usual response I get when I say water baptism is not to be practiced in this dispensation is...Paul Baptised people. Such a response only demonstrates ignorance of right division, progressive revelation and proper handling of the Word.

NOW: Your post Christ at His Comings

1. Advent, First. Genesis 3:15; Psalm 16:7-11; 22:1-21; Isaiah7:14; Isaiah 9:6; Micah 5:2; Matthew ch. 2; Luke ch. 2; John 1:14; 2 Corinthians 5:14-16; Philippians 2:5-8; 1 Timothy 3:16; Hebrews 2:7, 9, 10; 5:7, 8; etc.

You are mixing up doctrines.

All these references: (Genesis 3:15; Psalm 16:7-11; 22:1-21; Isaiah7:14; Isaiah 9:6; Micah 5:2; Matthew ch. 2; Luke ch. 2; John 1:14); are prophecy and pertain only to Israel, about their coming Messiah. It was never prophesied thier Messiah would die for their sin, only that he would die.

All these references: are mystery,not be confused with prophecy (2 Corinthians 5:14-16; Philippians 2:5-8; 1 Timothy 3:16); and pertain to the Church the Body Christ...in this present dispensation.

These references: Hebrews 2:7, 9, 10; 5:7, 8 pertain to Israel and prophecy completely fulfilled, Heb-Rev.
We have no part in Heb-Rev this all occurs after we are caught up to be with the LORD. Times to come.

You Said:
3. Our Gathering Together unto Him (Translation of the Body of Christ, the Church;commonly referred to as the “Rapture”). John 11:25, 26; 14:1-4; 1 Corinthians 15:51ff; Philippians 3:12-21; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 2
Thessalonians 2:1; 1 Timothy 3:16;

Again you are mixing up doctrines: John 11:25, 26; 14:1-4 are prophetic and refer to Israel in the resurrection from the dead; that occurs when Christ returns to this earth.

These verses you qoute: 1 Corinthians 15:51ff; Philippians 3:12-21; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 2 Thessalonians 2:1; 1 Timothy 3:16; pertain to the rapture in this dispensation of Grace, a completely different event than the resurrection of the dead to be experienced by Israel, in a entirely different dispensation.

Thank you again for starting this thread: Grace and Peace.

 

 


9 posted on 09/04/2010 1:30:29 PM PDT by PoloSec (Note to Princess B H Obama: May PISS be Upon Mohammads Head...You Pervert1 Corinthians 15:3 For I de)
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To: PoloSec; John Leland 1789; wmfights; presently no screen name
I agree. Great series, John! On the subject of water baptism, I just want to start with the common sense part of it.

If, at the moment of salvation, we are justified, sanctified, baptized into the Body of Christ, and sealed, all of these things BY the Holy Spirit, and seated in heavenly places in Christ, then there is no time, let alone reason for water baptism.

"and such were some of you; but ye ARE WASHED, but ye ARE SANCTIFIED, but ye ARE JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus, and BY THE SPIRIT of our God." (1 Cor. 6:11).

But this can only said in the dispensation of the Grace of God.

"There is ONE body, and ONE spirit, even as ye are called in ONE hope of your calling. ONE Lord, ONE faith, ONE baptism, ONE God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all." (Eph. 4:4-6).

The VERY most water baptism can do in this dispensation is simply make a person a member of a particular denomination.

Which is why Paul could say without reservation, "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, LEST THE CROSS OF CHRIST SHOULD BE MADE OF NONE EFFECT. FOR THE PREACHING OF THE CROSS is to them that perish foolishness, but unto us which are saved it IS THE POWER OF GOD." (1Cor. 1:17,18).

THIS is why water baptism passed off the scene and from the program of God. In the dispensation of grace, it the preaching of the cross and that alone that is proclaimed. Neither religious rites nor wisdom of words could or should be used to detract from the mighty accomplishments of Calvary.

10 posted on 09/04/2010 3:45:35 PM PDT by smvoice (smvoice- formally known as small voice in the wilderness. Easier on the typing!)
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To: PoloSec
"I think I agree with posts 1-8 about Israels baptisms, Israel practiced at least 12 types of baptisms through out times past and times to come."

Wow! I would love to have your notes on the twelve baptisms practiced by the Israelites. That would fit into the various baptisms practiced by the Jews in the outline.

The outline is not intended to be exhaustive; merely suggestive---after all, it's an outline. Some Scriptures are used in each section as illustrative, not forcing a position with regard to the texts.

I'm looking to learn and grow, and improve my expression of these things. Your contributions, including your criticisms are welcomed by me, believe me. I'm saving all posts.

12 posted on 09/05/2010 6:16:53 AM PDT by John Leland 1789 (Grateful)
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