Posted on 08/31/2010 6:42:35 PM PDT by Gamecock
Also, how exactly do your LDS friends “Honor the teachings of Jesus Christ”
By following a false prophet?
By following men who tells us that a physical man best himself on the no longer Virgin Mary and had his way with her?
By telling us he is Satan's brother?
That he is one of a number of God's?
That his grace is only sufficient after all we can do?
That he has to wait in Joseph Smith to certify folks before he can get them into heaven?
You can attempt to call into question my efforts but they are based solidly on Truth and the Bible, period as I demonstrated in our exchange. This is not a debate, the Truth is non negotiable.
I do not know what faith you practice, I go from thinking you are LDS since you have their coy little approach, to not knowing what to think, which is even more troubling. I do know that if you are not LDS you need to learn what Mormonism is all about. You need to also be more honest in your approach.
As for the unadulterated evil, please, go ahead and demonstrate this Evil, and show where it come from the Devil himself...
What lds group do they belong to? lds teach they do not follow the Christ of the Bible. So who do your friends honor?
BTW what happened to “judge not”..
LOL...
I've got to go do something, but I'll try to address your questions later.
Here's the bottom line, your heart is just as important as your brain in deciphering God's words. Don't make the same mistake that the radical Mooselimbs have made...
Be of good spirit!
Silly apostate...
Only the anti-Christians are allowed to judge,,
:)
How about you?
BTW the Muslim comment, there was no need to further demonstrate the bankruptcy of your arguments.
How about some honesty. What faith are you, what church do you practice your religion in?
This is so utterly delusional, it's just pathetic.
It's such a joke that devotees of Glenn's attest that he has criticized Mitt Romney, what posers -- don't they realize that Beck belongs to a CULT, Beck is a CULTIST, and whatever Beck's Ward Bishop tells Beck to do, Beck will do.
Just pathetic.
And why aren't these delusional prophecies mentioned more often around here when posters are supposedly critiquing this cult and it's OBVIOUS political mania?
Very suspicious....
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2425050/posts
Note the words of Mormon Prophet Brigham Young:
"Will the Constitution be destroyed? No; it will be held inviolate by this people; and, as Joseph Smith said, 'The time will come when the destiny of the nation will hang upon a single thread. At that critical juncture, this people will step forth and save it from threatened destruction.' It will be so." (Journal of Discourses,7:15.) Young also made another "prophecy" about the same circumstances:
"Brethren and sisters, our friends wish to know our feelings towards the Government. I answer, they are first rate, and we will prove it too, as you will see if you only live long enough, for that we shall live to prove it is certain, and when the Constitution of the United States hangs, as it were, upon a single thread, they will have to call for the "Mormon" Elders to save it from utter destruction; and they will step forward and do it." (Journal of Discourses, 2:182.)
There is yet a third voice explaining this "prophecy," and that is the voice of Orson Hyde, a contemporary of Joseph Smiths because he was one of his Twelve Apostles, who wrote this, also quoted in Journal of Discourses:
"It is said that brother Joseph in his lifetime declared that the Elders of this Church should step forth at a particular time when the Constitution should be in danger, and rescue it, and save it. I believe he said something like this - that the time would come when the country would be in danger of an overthrow; and said he, If the Constitution be saved at all, it will be by the Elders of this Church. I believe this is about the language, as nearly as I can recollect it." (Journal of Discourses, 6:152) Does Vance Smith believe that this is a prophecy made by his Prophet that has yet to be fulfilled, and does he see the Birch Society in all of its endeavors striving to be the group to "step forward and do it" to save the Constitution in junction with the LDS Church? Is this why he is systematically removing longtime Birchers from leadership positions and replacing them with Mormons? Time will tell."
IMHO, antis of all stripes do themselves far more harm by being negative all the time than they do to any religion, or belief system they oppose.
Are you an ex-Mormon, yep are you an anti, well you have declared yourself to be and your actions give me no reason to question your word. I am really sorry you had a bad experience with a bishop and what sounds like a loser of a husband, but in truth, there are people of all stripes in all religions, what is the net effect of the religion? is it a positive message? No good thing can come from Satan. I believe that almost all churches have some redeeming qualities, anti’s don't appear to have that opinion.
anyway, gotta go, sorry this post was so long, I didn't have the time to write a short one. /sic
Thank you for the extraordinary picture of Glenn Beck, I am very impressed with it.
Nobody's talking about that, at all. (You don't seem to realize that my extended family, whom I dearly love, is Mormon). What? Do you think I want them booted from the country? No. This is a good country for them to become saved in knowing the true Jesus.
Indeed. Had a guard been posted that kept my initial Mormon immigrant ancestor out, then I'd probably not even be on earth.
You've taken this on a road nobody's even going on this thread. If Mormons want to worship as peculiar Mormons, they have that religious freedom to express themselves. What Christians especially object to is Mormons branding themselves as "Christians." And that's understandable. I mean, Mormons don't like it when fundamentalist Mormons are portrayed as mainstream Mormons, so why the craving to allow mainstream Mormons to be mainstream Mormons, but the Christian identity has to become obliterated (and believe me, saying "Christians" can become gods is outright blasphemous). If Mormons would be Mormons and would stop trying to counterfeit themselves as another faith, the "collision" component would be lessened.
But, of course, even if the Christians had never said a word about Mormons, you still have the problem of how Lds, Inc. slanders Christianity 24/7 (online; in its curricula; in its "scriptures"; in its magazines; in its bookstores; via their missionaries; by BYU-TV, Deseret News, Mormon Times, KSL, & other media outlets it owns; by their general conferences; by way of their members; etc.)
What's so funny is that some posters can't tolerate thousands of thread comments we make; but when it comes to Lds Inc. spending millions of $ to portray Christians and Christianity in an adverse way, there's nary a peep of concern.
So when are even those who are nominally "Christian" who object to "anti" behavior going to write Salt Lake City & tell them to knock off the Christian bashing?
When is SLC going to hear it that it's not "kosher" to label all Christians as "apostates."...
And that Joseph Smith's first vision of calling all professing believers of Christian sects "corrupt" isn't very heartwarming...
And Smith's first vision of calling 100% of Christian creeds isn't accurate or helpful to "getting along"...
And implying or outright stating that the Christian church operates under the broad umbrella of the "church of Satan" doesn't offer forth a "peace offering" (1 Nephi 14:9-10, Book of Mormon)
And stating in their "scripture-doctrine" that the Lds church "is the only true and living church on the face of the earth" (D&C 1:30) should actually get all those nominal religious folks riled up (you know, the ones who usually object to exclusive monopolies when it comes to other religious settings).
Stop preaching to the choir and go witness to the world; the people in here are trying to save the Republic
Two problems there: #1 the true gospel of Jesus Christ is both for Christians and non-Christians alike to hear. (We don't have two different versions).
#2 What you've stated is exactly the problem I mentioned in post#651 and Colorcountry mentioned earlier in the thread..where the "people...are trying to save..."
CC asks a good Q: "Who is going to save this nation? Is it God or Glenn Beck?"
The Old Testament mentions that no man can ransom his brother for a good reason (Ps. 49). The task is so large and so difficult to save even one man, let alone a whole nation; no one man can do it. And no humanistic collective "tower of Babel" enterprise can do it. In fact, the Babelist approach is offensive to God -- where we try to reach Him from the ground up vs. receiving the incarnate Son of God and His Holy Spirit from the heaven on down.
False ecumenism is exactly that.
Delf, you know I'm actually trying to change my habit of assuming Mormons believe all things "Mormon." I'm seeing that younger generational Mormons tend to be a bit of all things...
...part secular...part HS & college-campus secular...part multi-media bathed secular...
...certainly culturally Mormon...but not necessarily doctrinally through and through Mormon...
...some have picked up more from the Bible than other Mormons...
...some have picked up more emphasis from Evangelical Christianity...
...some Lds, especially younger New Age, may have even some New Age thought tinged into their beliefs -- or beliefs from other non-Mormon, non-Christian sources...
My point? While we still need to have a lexicon for how our culture currently describes things, overbroad knee-jerk labels & stereotypes are becoming less helpful all the time -- at least the broad overarching labels. Our labels need to be more specific to head off automatic assumptions.
I mean, what is the current Mormon ad campaign if anything than to show the diversity of Mormons? And it is. You perhaps have 20% who are "temple" Mormons. You have "jack" Mormons. You have cafeteria Mormons...and you can probably come up with a list much longer than mine. And then even with these sub-groups, are individual unique Mormons.
The key thing is that we have to get know each person individually. We're all unique; though different groups share many characteristics and beliefs.
Therefore, I declare that the "anti" label is one of these. A person can be pro-Mormon the person and still be anti-belief system re: MormonISM. A person like Szonian can dearly love his Mormon wife and still oppose the system.
We are ALL opposed to some ideology...hence, in that sense, we are ALL "anti"...something. (Some beliefs are just easier to not object to or assimilate into your own worldviews than others).
What we object to comes down to provocation, passion, opportunity, and calling.
A parent practicing "tough love" on a teen going off the deep end into a brainwashing cult is actually engaged in more pro behavior than anti behavior...because they have the best interest of that teen at heart. And if our "best interest" is informed by the Bible and led by the Holy Spirit, then we have a Source beyond us guiding us.
We'll never lose the labels. (And I'm not advocating that we do away with them). We simply need to be slower & more cautious before we toss them out. We need to get to know people better.
Otherwise, what I find is that people use labels as an excuse to automatically write off what people are saying.
There's one FR poster who I use to view as a thread disruptor. I then reviewed his decade long posting history to see what he had gone through spiritually and found out we had a lot more in common than I thought. My respect for him increased. My understanding did, too.
We still clashed, but I was able to see him more as a multi-dimensional person, vs. me simply writing him off.
(That's all I'm suggesting we do).
I don’t really care what Mormons choose to label me with. It actually says more about them than it does about me.
This man who became Christian after leaving Mormonism says it better than I could myself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_Y_hZJr2nU&feature=related
I prefer “apostate ex-mormon damned to outer darkness (mormon hell)”. It has a really nice ring to it, don’t you think?
Or any of the other colorful descriptions given to me by the mormons and their “friends”.
Like you said CC, it says much more about them than it does us.
Well, this part parallels the Bible -- the sentiments of the apostle Paul, anyway, about his fellow Jews:
1I speak the truth in Christ—I am not lying, my conscience confirms it in the Holy Spirit— 2I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart. 3For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, those of my own race, 4the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises. 5Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. (Romans 9:1-5)
So cheers to Kipling on expressing such sentiments so well!
However, on the first part, Kipling was expressing wishful thinking outside of the hope of Jesus Christ:
For those who kneel beside us
At altars not Thine own,
Who lack the lights that guide us,
Lord, let their faith atone.
Our Light is the Bible and Jesus Christ; the Holy Spirit enlightens us.
Matthew 25:1-12 expresses how those who lack oil for their lamps -- oil being the symbol of the Holy Spirit -- do not have the requisite light to traverse when the BrideGroom (Jesus Christ) comes. Jesus, not me, said that those lacking such readiness will be locked out:
10But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut.
11"Later the others also came. 'Sir! Sir!' they said. 'Open the door for us!'
12"But he replied, 'I tell you the truth, I don't know you.'
Faith always has an object. Naked "faith" for faith's sake outside of Jesus Christ is not enough. The word "atone" means to be "reconciled." So Kipling was expressing wishful thinking that "faith" (and the limits of poetry are that we have to imagine he's talking about a faith in God minus Jesus Christ) would be enough to reconcile them to "God" -- however they imagine Him to be.
The apostle Paul explained reconciliation and the vitality of Jesus in this to the church at Corinth:
18All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. (2 Cor. 5:18-21)
Ray, if Christ were irrelevant to whether people could be saved ... if people could do "end runs" around Christ and not even have to bother relating to Him, then why bother sending Him as a man? Why bother having Him die such a horrible death on the cross? Why bother making Jesus to BE our very sin (2 Cor. 5:21)?
There's no righteousness outside of Jesus Christ. He's it! (2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Cor. 1:30). Either we trust Christ to be our very righteousness or God's eyes, or it ain't there. There's no other "gameplan" God designed.
But this is what Rudyard Kipling REALLY thought of Mormons.
AMERICAN NOTES By Rudyard Kipling
By great good luck the evil-minded train, already delayed twelve
hours by a burned bridge, brought me to the city on a Saturday by
way of that valley which the Mormons, over their efforts, had
caused to blossom like the rose. Twelve hours previously I had
entered into a new world where, in conversation, every one was
either a Mormon or a Gentile. It is not seemly for a free and
independent citizen to dub himself a Gentile, but the Mayor of
Ogden—which is the Gentile city of the valley—told me that
there must be some distinction between the two flocks.
Long before the fruit orchards of Logan or the shining levels of
the Salt Lake had been reached, that mayor—himself a Gentile,
and one renowned for his dealings with the Mormons—told me that
the great question of the existence of the power within the power
was being gradually solved by the ballot and by education.
All the beauty of the valley could not make me forget it. And
the valley is very fair. Bench after bench of land, flat as a
table against the flanks of the ringing hills, marks where the
Salt Lake rested for awhile in its collapse from an inland sea to
a lake fifty miles long and thirty broad.
There are the makings of a very fine creed about Mormonism. To
begin with, the Church is rather more absolute than that of Rome.
Drop the polygamy plank in the platform, but on the other hand
deal lightly with certain forms of excess; keep the quality of
the recruit down to the low mental level, and see that the best
of all the agricultural science available is in the hands of the
elders, and there you have a first-class engine for pioneer work.
The tawdry mysticism and the borrowing from Freemasonry serve the
low caste Swede and Dane, the Welshman and the Cornish cotter,
just as well as a highly organized heaven.
Then I went about the streets and peeped into people’s front
windows, and the decorations upon the tables were after the
manner of the year 1850. Main Street was full of country folk
from the desert, come in to trade with the Zion Mercantile
Co-operative Institute. The Church, I fancy, looks after the
finances of this thing, and it consequently pays good dividends.
The faces of the women were not lovely. In-deed, but for the
certainty that ugly persons are just as irrational in the matter
of undivided love as the beautiful, it seems that polygamy was a
blessed institution for the women, and that only the dread
threats of the spiritual power could drive the hulking,
board-faced men into it. The women wore hideous garments, and
the men appeared to be tied up with strings.
They would market all that afternoon, and on Sunday go to the
praying-place. I tried to talk to a few of them, but they spoke
strange tongues, and stared and behaved like cows. Yet one
woman, and not an altogether ugly one, confided to me that she
hated the idea of Salt Lake City being turned into a show-place
for the amusement of the Gentiles.
“If we ‘have our own institutions, that ain’t no reason why
people should come ‘ere and stare at us, his it?”
The dropped “h” betrayed her.
“And when did you leave England?” I said.
“Summer of ‘84. I am Dorset,” she said. “The Mormon agent was
very good to us, and we was very poor. Now we’re better off—my
father, an’ mother, an’ me.”
“Then you like the State?”
She misunderstood at first.
“Oh, I ain’t livin’ in the state of polygamy. Not me, yet. I
ain’t married. I like where I am. I’ve got things o’ my
own—and some land.”
“But I suppose you will—”
“Not me. I ain’t like them Swedes an’ Danes. I ain’t got
nothin’ to say for or against polygamy. It’s the elders’
business, an’ between you an’ me, I don’t think it’s going on
much longer. You’ll ‘ear them in the ‘ouse to-morrer talkin’ as
if it was spreadin’ all over America. The Swedes, they think it
his. I know it hisn’t.”
“But you’ve got your land all right?”
“Oh, yes; we’ve got our land, an’ we never say aught against
polygamy, o’ course—father, an’ mother, an’ me.”
On a table-land overlooking all the city stands the United States
garrison of infantry and artillery. The State of Utah can do
nearly anything it pleases until that much-to-be-desired hour
when the Gentile vote shall quietly swamp out Mormonism; but the
garrison is kept there in case of accidents. The big,
shark-mouthed, pig-eared, heavy-boned farmers sometimes take to
their creed with wildest fanaticism, and in past years have made
life excessively unpleasant for the Gentile when he was few in
the land. But to-day, so far from killing openly or secretly, or
burning Gentile farms, it is all the Mormon dare do to feebly try
to boycott the interloper. His journals preach defiance to the
United States Government, and in the Tabernacle on a Sunday the
preachers follow suit.
When I went there, the place was full of people who would have
been much better for a washing.
A man rose up and told them that they were the chosen of God, the
elect of Israel; that they were to obey their priests, and that
there was a good time coming. I fancy that they had heard all
this before so many times it produced no impression whatever,
even as the sublimest mysteries of another faith lose salt
through constant iteration. They breathed heavily through their
noses, and stared straight in front of them—impassive as flat
fish.
I can’t answer your question because I can’t figure out what it is.
You lost me. I’m willing to answer, but first I gotta understand your point.
Your post is too long and probably too negative for me to read.
I believe that all of us of any stripe who believe we need to take back this country to what The Founders envisioned, a small, representative federal government, can do this together without worrying that we might be of differing faiths.
I guess you don’t.
NANA will be UPSET!
So then; ALL of those 52,000 MMs are ANTI's?
Yeah; why READ when you can save time by ASSUMING!
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