Posted on 08/21/2010 1:46:48 PM PDT by HungarianGypsy
I am interested in learning more about what the Greek Orthodox church members believe.
Ping!
I’ve been wondering, too, as I have been disenchanted with the RCC of late.
They are similar to the Catholic Church only they believe in immersion baptism even for the babies. For the adults they had what looked like a metal cow drinking trough and for the babies they had like a real deep bowl that they would put the babie buttox first and let the water cover over their head.
Truly beautiful work.
Hello
I was born into the Greek Orthodox faith as my ancestors had come from Greece. However, I became a Protestant very early on as did the rest of my family. Generally speaking, the Greek Orthodox faith worships liturgically and makes much of icons. Perhaps it is safe to say that the icons are central to the worship and parishioners place candles in front of them before the service. The faith is trinitarian, and continues to be in dispute with the RC’s over the nature of the trinity however. In the Orthodox church, the The Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father, making the Father the masthead of the trinity. In the western Church the holy spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son. It is a small difference, but divisive nonetheless. The Orthodox church also does not recognize the Pope nor purgatory. I recall that most of the Greeks I had come into contact with were not regular church goers, that they treated their religion much like reformed Jews treat Judaism. It is something they acknowledge on holidays, at marriages, and when someone dies. Other than that they had no interest or understanding of scripture. They believe in lots of saints and pray to them . They also venerate Mary, who they call Theotokos, the Mother of God. In this way, they are very like the Catholics. I recall once going to a memorial service for a deceased relative, and having to turn three times widdershins and spit at the devil. I am sure the Orthodox Church of America has declined to allow this kind of superstitious practice, but it does crop up in the ethnic Greek Churches I have attended. In NYC, many of the old Greek Orthodox churches are now mostly filled with Russians who have their own superstitions and ways of doing things. I had to go to another memorial service a few years ago, at a Greek church in Brooklyn . Half the church were Russians, the other half Greeks, and they did not look like they got along very well. There were two priests , one Greek,one Russian and the service was in Greek, Russian and English. Greek orthodoxy is interesting because it seems so medieval in practice. It is worth going to an Easter service at midnight. You feel like you are in the year 1200 AD.
how about the Byzantine Catholics- - http://www.byzcath.org
BTW, though I'm a Catholic, I was a kind of friend-of-the-faithful nonofficial fellow-traveler (and choir member) of an O parish (together with my RC one) for a number of years. I have an enduring love for Orthodox liturgy, theology, and spirituality.
Orthodox immigrants probably first got to America when the Spanish brought their POWs from their wars with the Ottoman Empire to South Carolina in the 1500s. That's a very complex story, but there weren't ever enough of them to get together a congregation.
The next bunch came with the Russians in the early 1800s to what is now Alaska, and from there to California (Fort Ross), and then, as I've found, to Southern Indiana after the Russian North America company withdrew from America.
Again, that wasn't that big a thing but they got buried under Russian crosses ~ the neighbors in Indiana knew what they were and respected that.
You don't see any large numbers of Orthodox believers of any kind until the late 1800s with the Russians, and the early 1900s with the Greeks.
Back to the Christian Church Movement ~ this was an attempt to recreate the Christian Church as it was in the First Century, and BEFORE the distribution of a set of orders for bishops. Intriguingly the leaders of the movement (Alexander Campbell, Barton Stone and David Lipscomb) came up with something very much like Orthodoxy ~ except no hats, no alcohol, and no bishops.
I suspect those early stray Orthodox believers found themselves drawn into the new Christian Church organizations and just disappeared.
The later early 1900s immigrations of Orthodox landed on top of the Eastern Cities, so for a while Baltimore was the world's second largest Greek city! But all up and down the coast, and in the Chicago area, you would have seen Orthodox churches of all sort going up. Later there were a good number of Orthodox who settled in San Diego (once the world capital of canned tuna and American canned olives), and so on.
Given that timeline and the events surrounding the arrival of Orthodoxy in America I'd suggest the broad masses of Greeks and Russians are about a generation short of a big interest in politics ~ but, as we all know, those guys are all Republicans anyway.
As noted, the Christian Church movement provided a somewhat tolerable theological standard, and traditions, and yet other Protestant organizations attracted the top earners in the various Orthodox communities. In the Great Plains you would also find Roman Catholicism picking off Orthodox Russians and Ukrainians. The Episcopals, from what I've experienced, targeted Serbs, but Serbia has always had a large Hungarian Protestant population, so those folks might have already come here intending to become Episcopalians ~ and change their names to things like George Brown (simple addition of 4 vowels eh).
There has always been a shortage of Orthodox priests in America.
BTW, we have a Greek Orthodox church right over near Bailey's Crossroads that has a congregation filled with plenty of traditional American and English surnames ~ so this goes both ways.
It's possible we have people here who have grandparents or greatgrandparents who were Orthodox but they don't know. Took me 30 years of study before I was able to identify a single Orthodox ancestor, but there he was ~ over 300 years ago ~ if that counts.
The final answer ~ unless somebody here self identifies none of us know what their religious affiliation might be, but in general they are all good hearted folks, and if some Orthodox people want to post here they are certainly welcome. Some of us even understand, and share in, a number of your ecclesiastical peculiarities in fact.
I urge you to check out an Eastern Rite Catholic Church as well as learning about Orthodoxy.
I did find out I am living in sin in either denomination. (civil service to an LDS boy 17 years and 8 months ago) haha.. But, I do like to learn about other beliefs without the disputing that often happens on threads and a real person writing of THEIR belief system is so much more real than just a textbook approach to things.
Thank you for your statement. For a long time I have wanted to learn of other faiths. I have a big interest in religions. Once in a while I might find something of interest on a thread, but with so much arguing it is difficult to get to the meat of what people who wish to share believe. Once I posted a thread asking what others believe and asked it not involve flaming each other. Got less response than this thread. Actually, the quality of posts on here has been refreshing and I thank you to those who have responded and am open to hearing more from those who wish to discuss more.
i’ve never heard of early Russian emigration communities in southern Indiana. Can you tell me where these graveyards are located?
I was raised as Christian Orthodox but I’ve been Born Again for over a decade. Anything in particular you’re trying to find out???
Greece, under the Ottomans, became a backwater. Russia had a different experience ~ they were beating the Ottomans. The Serbs, et al, also had a different experience.
Still, the Ottomans were really not interested in fostering Christianity. Greece has probably more than equaled the economic might of Byzantium before it ~ as has nearby Turkey, and even the Balkans. But that wasn't the case in the 1920s when large numbers of Greek people came to America. Be kind to your forebears ~ they were struggling with all their might and here you are.
California was a dreadful place then.
The Western Europeans who'd latched on to the Czar's extension of Russian interests to it's Easternmost holdings simply became Russian Orthodox, went with the company, and ended up in California.
There were men from Southern Indiana and/or Ohio in Califormia trading furs who participated in the trade between the Russians and the Spanish. This eliminated national conflicts.
When the Russians pulled out, a bunch of these guys stayed and later on relocated East with the Americans.
What you find in the pioneer graves of that era (1840s/1850s) are the occasional RUSSIAN CROSS, executed in stone, or iron.
These men "assimilated", and there being no Orthodox priests in the region, and few RC priests, they disappeared into a broad Protestant background ~
I see the local church lists Orthos and Divine Liturgy. What are these and which would be most benefit to a visitor to attend?
I understand that illiteracy had much to do with the way Greeks in the centuries past may have encountered the church. Certainly this was the case in most non Northern European countries. The populace was dependent on an educated clergy to direct their religious life. This usually amounted to following proscribed rites and cultural regulations. However, the people I am talking about live in the 21st century and have college educations. For them to ignore Scripture is without excuse.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.