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The Challenges of (Non-existent?) Mormon Theology (OPEN)
Patheos ^ | August 9, 2010 | Blake Ostler

Posted on 08/19/2010 9:50:35 AM PDT by greyfoxx39

The Challenges of (Non-existent?) Mormon Thelogy
August 9, 2010
By Blake Ostler

Addressing the future of Mormon theology is problematic on many fronts.

First, there are many in Mormonism who believe that it doesn't have any "theology." There are others, like BYU philosophy professor James Faulconer, who believe that although Mormonism may have some types of informal theology, the endeavor to develop any theology is either inherently dangerous to faith or otherwise a worthless project. Nevertheless, such "post-modern" skepticism, which denigrates development of such theological issues, is fundamentally at odds with Mormonism's commitment to continuity with the natural world and the inherent capacity of mortals to discover truth. However, it is clear that because Mormonism embraces "continuing revelation," any statement of theology is always subject to revision by any future revelations that may be received by the prophets of the Church.

This statement of the problem gives rise to one of the primary tasks of Mormon theology. Taking "theology" in its broadest sense as a faithful attempt to make sense of one's received faith within the culture in which one finds oneself, a primary task of Mormon theology in the future is to find the role of theological assessment of scripture and revelation and the value of coherent thought in Mormonism. More importantly, the task of defining what is authoritative in Mormon theology and what constitutes Mormon "doctrine" remain major tasks for the future. Various positions have been suggested to date.

Most Mormons appear to uncritically assume a more-or-less evangelical view of theology as a statement of a totalizing attempt at a coherent system of scriptural doctrine that elucidates a completed worldview. However, given the nature of Mormonism's open canon and its rejection of scriptural inerrancy, such a view of theology and, more particularly revelation, does not seem to be sustainable within Mormonism.

Nathan Oman has suggested that Mormonism embraces a view of theology something like a judicial assessment based upon many sources of common law. (Click here to read more on Mormon doctrinal sources and the question of authority). In his view, Mormonism assesses the many sources of the Mormon scriptures and statements by general authorities like a judge assesses the sources of common law. However, any such undertaking is necessarily subject to revision by further "judicial" decisions that may modify the common law.

I have suggested a view of revelation consisting of "creative co-participation" in which prophets necessarily provide revelation within the contexts of a particular linguistic structure, linguistic practice, and worldview. In addition, the sources of authority are to be assessed based upon a hierarchy of value beginning most authoritatively with the scriptures, non-canonized revelations, statements of Joseph Smith, the official statements of church authorities (such as First Presidency statements), and the Lectures on Faith, rounded out by the statements made by General Authorities in General Conference talks and elsewhere. Such an approach has much in common with Nathan Oman's proposed "common law" approach to assessing what constitutes Mormon doctrine and revelation.

The primary task of Mormon theology for the foreseeable future is to assess its relationship to naturalism and the scientific worldview. Many Mormons view God as located within and limited by our "particular universe," which began some fourteen billion years ago with the big bang and is thus subject to all of the limitations of natural law. Others see God as transcending the existing natural universe because God is the organizer not only of this universe, but of many others. God's relationship to the natural universe, whether God had a beginning of his divinity, and whether God is at the mercy of limitations of natural laws, remain major issues for Mormon thinkers to work out.

In addition, Mormon theology has the difficult task of elucidating how religious and spiritual knowledge are reliable, compared to empirical and technical knowledge gained through the scientific method and the assumptions of naturalism. To date, few Mormon thinkers have developed a consistent explanation of Mormon spiritual experiences and how they provide reliable knowledge. However, elucidating an epistemology of spiritual experiences within the Mormon tradition seems to be a primary task that must be undertaken to provide a basis of commitment to Mormonism. Mormonism has tended to simply adopt an uncritical fideism where believers simply accept the assertions of faith on faith and the validity of spiritual experience without critical thought.

Finally, Mormonism has yet to develop a theology of the problem of human consciousness and issues related to its commitment to a type of "spirit matter" or "intelligence" that is uncreated and eternal. These issues have become much more pressing with the advances in brain and cognitive sciences. The relation of the laws of nature and Mormonism's commitment to free will and agency is a particularly important and fundamental theological issue. Indeed, just what is meant by an "intelligence," what it is that is uncreated, and whether individuality is an eternal feature remain critical and bed-rock issues for Mormon thinkers.



TOPICS: General Discusssion; Other non-Christian; Religion & Science; Theology
KEYWORDS: beck; christian; glennbeck; inman; lds; mormon
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To: Elsie

And yet YOU have NEVER actually SHOWN anything that was TWISTED or DECEPTIVE.


lol what isn’t that you guys post? Well to be truthful occasionally I see something that is quite true and a non-issue. Occasionally.

Anyone who looks into the “issues” raised will have constant ahah moments as they discover exactly what I mean. The examples are way too numerous and rapid fire to possibly keep up with and I know from experience that arguing with a hardcore anti is pointless.

So I continue to let the possible undecided onlooker know what is up and let them investigate it for themselves. All it takes is a sincere desire to know the truth.


61 posted on 08/20/2010 8:24:31 PM PDT by Paragon Defender
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To: Paragon Defender; Elsie
lol what isn’t that you guys post?

citations from mormon apostles, presidents and endorsed publications - are your own people twisted?

So I continue to let the possible undecided onlooker know what is up and let them investigate it for themselves. All it takes is a sincere desire to know the truth.

Oh, they look alright, and they get an eyeful of mormon obfuscations and tap dancing around the issues - just like your post. They are quick to see that the meat of mormonism is cardboard and tastes even worse.

62 posted on 08/20/2010 8:28:39 PM PDT by Godzilla ( 3-7-77)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion

I’m going with the God of the Bible on this one!


Me too! =-D

I applaud your effort and desire but we’re just going to have to disagree on what God has revealed to us about this. =-)


63 posted on 08/20/2010 8:28:49 PM PDT by Paragon Defender
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To: Godzilla

citations from mormon apostles, presidents and endorsed publications


yup sometimes and then they are then attacked, mis-represented and twisted. Over and over. Day after day. Strawman after strawman. Non-issue after non-issue.

Undecided readers,

As an ex Mormon-basher, I invite everyone to read all of the multitude of Anti-Mormon attack threads and/or comments on this board and then do some research on your own from more than one side of the “issues”.

Is what all these Mormon attack squad people parrot day in and and day out on these boards true? Don’t take their word for it. Find out for yourself. Put forth some effort. You do want the truth right? Prove it.

Read both sides! Talk to both sides! Not just mine. Not just theirs. Make up your own mind.

Here’s a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint. The vast majority of the issues brought up can be found and addressed at http://www.fairlds.org/ I have found but here’s more.

http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/


64 posted on 08/20/2010 8:36:59 PM PDT by Paragon Defender
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To: Paragon Defender

All it takes is a sincere desire to know the truth


Very true, PD.

Matthew 7:

“7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened”

I have found this out to be true for myself.


65 posted on 08/20/2010 8:47:17 PM PDT by Normandy
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To: Elsie
God never sinned.
66 posted on 08/20/2010 9:08:33 PM PDT by Minus_The_Bear
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To: Paragon Defender
So I continue to let the possible undecided onlooker know what is up and let them investigate it for themselves.

Translation: I cannot dispute what the MORMON religious organization has published; so I'll infer, like Scully & Mulder, that 'The Truth is Out There."

67 posted on 08/21/2010 4:54:54 AM PDT by Elsie
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To: Paragon Defender
The examples are way too numerous and rapid fire to possibly keep up with and I know from experience that arguing with a hardcore anti is pointless.

You have no time for even ONE?

Yup; losing the ARGUMENT tends to make one shy away from the next.

68 posted on 08/21/2010 4:56:29 AM PDT by Elsie
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To: Godzilla
...are your own people twisted?

 
 

http://www.templestudy.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/joseph-smith2.jpg


 
http://josephsmithphoto.com/Images/joseph-smith-discovery.jpg


 
http://www.mormonmomma.com/images/joseph-smith.jpeg


 
 
 
 
 
http://www.thecenters.org/images/groups_photos/Joseph%20Smith%20Portrait.jpg


 
 
 
http://www.moroni10.com/General_Conference/smith2.jpg



 
 
 
 
http://www.ldsplates.com/heirloom_images/joseph3.jpg


 
 
 
http://www.deseretnews.com/photos/2157147.jpg

 
 
 
http://paperclippings.com/lds/images/joseph-smith.jpg


 
 


 


 


 


 

69 posted on 08/21/2010 4:57:23 AM PDT by Elsie
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To: Godzilla
...are your own people twisted?

 
 

THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 129
 
Instructions given by Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, February 9, 1843, making known three grand keys by which the correct nature of ministering angels and spirits may be distinguished. HC 5: 267.
1–3, There are both resurrected and spirit bodies in heaven; 4–9, Keys are given whereby messengers from beyond the veil may be identified.
 
  1 There are two kinds of beings in aheaven, namely: bAngels, who are cresurrected personages, having dbodies of flesh and bones—
  2 For instance, Jesus said: Handle me and see, for a spirit hath not aflesh and bones, as ye see me have.
  3 Secondly: the aspirits of bjust men made cperfect, they who are not resurrected, but inherit the same glory.
  4 When a messenger comes saying he has a message from God, offer him your hand and request him to shake hands with you.
  5 If he be an angel he will do so, and you will feel his hand.
  6 If he be the spirit of a just man made perfect he will come in his glory; for that is the only way he can appear—
  7 Ask him to shake hands with you, but he will not move, because it is contrary to the aorder of heaven for a just man to bdeceive; but he will still deliver his message.
  8 If it be the adevil as an angel of light, when you ask him to shake hands he will offer you his hand, and you will not bfeel anything; you may therefore detect him.
  9 These are three grand akeys whereby you may know whether any administration is from God.
 

70 posted on 08/21/2010 4:58:32 AM PDT by Elsie
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To: Paragon Defender
yup sometimes and then they are then attacked, mis-represented and twisted. Over and over. Day after day. Strawman after strawman. Non-issue after non-issue.

Thanks for posting a listing of REAL twisted passages; all the same!


If you EVER want to man up, and actually take on an ANTI one-to-one (yeah; some of us lil' heel nippers will probably join in, too.) we'll be here to accommodate you.

71 posted on 08/21/2010 5:01:27 AM PDT by Elsie
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To: Paragon Defender
The examples are way too numerous and rapid fire to possibly keep up with and I know from experience that arguing with a hardcore anti is pointless.

If you haven't noticed; we do NOT do this in real time. You can take as LLLooong as you wish to formulate your replies.

72 posted on 08/21/2010 5:02:48 AM PDT by Elsie
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To: Normandy
I have found this out to be true for myself.

A tbm like yourself should SURELY be able to 'ask GOD' to learn just what JS did, about the UNTRUTH of the PRESBYTERIANism of his day.

(Why are there NO Mormons that seem to want to KNOW this?)

73 posted on 08/21/2010 5:04:59 AM PDT by Elsie
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To: Minus_The_Bear

...it makes me more comfortable...


74 posted on 08/21/2010 5:09:30 AM PDT by Elsie
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To: Minus_The_Bear
 
GOD never sinned...



Joseph Smith taught:

"It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God...
He was once a man like us; ...
God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did"

(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 345-46)


75 posted on 08/21/2010 5:10:57 AM PDT by Elsie
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To: Elsie
 
...are your own people twisted?
 

 
 
THE
DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS
OF THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS
SECTION 132
 
  51–57, Emma Smith is counseled (commanded) to be faithful and true; 58–66, Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth.
 
 
  51 Verily, I say unto you: A commandment I give unto mine handmaid, Emma Smith, your wife, whom I have given unto you, that she stay herself and partake not of that which I commanded you to offer unto her; for I did it, saith the Lord, to aprove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.
  52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, areceive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.
  53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been afaithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.
  54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and acleave unto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be bdestroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.
  55 But if she will not abide this commandment, then shall my servant Joseph do all things for her, even as he hath said; and I will bless him and multiply him and give unto him an ahundredfold in this world, of fathers and mothers, brothers and sisters, houses and lands, wives and children, and crowns of beternal lives in the eternal worlds.
  56 And again, verily I say, let mine handmaid aforgive my servant Joseph his trespasses; and then shall she be forgiven her trespasses, wherein she has trespassed against me; and I, the Lord thy God, will bless her, and multiply her, and make her heart to brejoice
 
 
 
 

Whatever HAPPENED to Emma???
 
Eliza was a devout Mormon. At age 38, she became Joseph Smith's 14th plural wife (in addition to Smith's lawful wife, Emma). In 1842, after learning Eliza was pregnant, Emma Smith beat Eliza with a broomstick and knocked her down a flight of stairs, causing Eliza to miscarry Smith's baby.
 
 
Wow!!
 
 
I guess ol' Emma got VAPORIZED by GOD!!!
 
 
We know that multiply him thing sure didn't work out!

76 posted on 08/21/2010 5:13:28 AM PDT by Elsie
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To: Godzilla
citations from mormon apostles, presidents and endorsed publications - are your own people twisted?

Um...

Check please...

77 posted on 08/21/2010 5:42:53 AM PDT by ejonesie22 (Christians: Stand for Christ or stand aside...)
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To: Elsie

Hi Elsie,

Jesus told Joseph Smith not to join any of the churches of his day, Presbyterian was one of the churches he was considering — his mother was a Presbyterian, I believe.

Normandy


78 posted on 08/21/2010 5:49:20 AM PDT by Normandy
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To: Normandy
 
Jesus told Joseph Smith not to join any of the churches of his day, Presbyterian was one of the churches he was considering — his mother was a Presbyterian, I believe.
 
No; HE didn't!

 




Joseph Smith

As a young boy in 1820, Joseph Smith wanted to know which church was true. As he searched the Bible for help, he read that he should ask of God. Acting on this counsel, Joseph went into the woods near his home and prayed. Suddenly, a light shone above him and Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ appeared to him. When Joseph asked which church he should join, the Savior told him to join none of the churches then in existence because they were teaching incorrect doctrines. Through this experience and many others that followed, the Lord chose Joseph to be His prophet and to restore the gospel of Jesus Christ and His Church to the earth.

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?index=10&locale=0&sourceId=fcda9daac5d98010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD

 



http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/17#17

  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.” 
 


The First says the SON spoke; but the Scripture says the FATHER spoke!
79 posted on 08/21/2010 6:49:28 AM PDT by Elsie
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To: Normandy
 
Jesus told Joseph Smith not to join any of the churches of his day, Presbyterian was one of the churches he was considering — his mother was a Presbyterian, I believe.
 
 




 I hope you do not consider this to be an ANSWER to the question:

 
What was UNTRUE about PRESBYTERIANism?

80 posted on 08/21/2010 6:51:54 AM PDT by Elsie
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