Posted on 08/15/2010 2:44:17 PM PDT by greyfoxx39
One of the noteworthy examples of the Latter-day Saint commitment to treasure up true principles and cultivate affirmative gratitude is the admiration that Church leaders have expressed over the years for the spiritual contributions of Muhammad.
As early as 1855, at a time when Christian literature generally ridiculed Muhammad as the Antichrist and the archenemy of Western civilization, Elders George A. Smith (1817–75) and Parley P. Pratt (1807–57) of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles delivered lengthy sermons demonstrating an accurate and balanced understanding of Islamic history and speaking highly of Muhammad’s leadership. Elder Smith observed that Muhammad was “descended from Abraham and was no doubt raised up by God on purpose” to preach against idolatry. He sympathized with the plight of Muslims, who, like Latter-day Saints, found it difficult “to get an honest history” written about them. Speaking next, Elder Pratt went on to express his admiration for Muhammad’s teachings, asserting that “upon the whole, … [Muslims] have better morals and better institutions than many Christian nations.” 9
Latter-day Saint appreciation of Muhammad’s role in history can also be found in the 1978 First Presidency statement regarding God’s love for all mankind. This declaration specifically mentions Muhammad as one of “the great religious leaders of the world” who received “a portion of God’s light” and affirms that “moral truths were given to [these leaders] by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals.” 10
In recent years, respect for the spiritual legacy of Muhammad and for the religious values of the Islamic community has led to increasing contact and cooperation between Latter-day Saints and Muslims around the world. This is due in part to the presence of Latter-day Saint congregations in areas such as the Levant, North Africa, the Persian Gulf, and Southeast Asia. The Church has sought to respect Islamic laws and traditions that prohibit conversion of Muslims to other faiths by adopting a policy of nonproselyting in Islamic countries of the Middle East. Yet examples of dialogue and cooperation abound, including visits of Muslim dignitaries at Church headquarters in Salt Lake City; Muslim use of Church canning facilities to produce halal (ritually clean) food products; Church humanitarian aid and disaster relief sent to predominantly Muslim areas including Jordan, Kosovo, and Turkey; academic agreements between Brigham Young University and various educational and governmental institutions in the Islamic world; the existence of the Muslim Student Association at BYU; and expanding collaboration between the Church and Islamic organizations to safeguard traditional family values worldwide. 11 The recent initiation of the Islamic Translation Series, cosponsored by BYU and the Church, has resulted in several significant exchanges between Muslim officials and Latter-day Saint Church leaders. A Muslim ambassador to the United Nations predicted that this translation series “will play a positive role in the West’s quest for a better understanding of Islam.” 12
A cabinet minister in Egypt, aware of the common ground shared by Muslims and Latter-day Saints, once remarked to Elder Howard W. Hunter of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles that “if a bridge is ever built between Christianity and Islam it must be built by the Mormon Church.” 13 The examples of Latter-day Saint–Muslim interaction mentioned above, together with the Church’s establishment in 1989 of two major centers for educational and cultural exchange in the Middle East (Jerusalem and Amman), reflect the traditional attitude of respect for Islam that Church leaders have exhibited from earliest times. These activities represent tangible evidence of Latter-day Saint commitment to promote greater understanding of the Muslim world and witness an emerging role for the Church in helping to bridge the gap that has existed historically between Muslims and Christians.
You are entitled to your opinion.
The Bible doesn’t support the Trinity, it undermines it.
What are the evidences in the Bible that monotheism is forever?
The OT isn’t about a fight between polytheism and monotheism - that’s what atheists would have you believe. They argue for the evolution of religion, eventually ending in atheism or godlessness.
The OT is a fight between the true God and false gods.
You know nothing about Heaven or what life is like there. You make suppositions, which you may do, but you cannot deny that the LDS perspective is supported in the Bible.
Actually, I re-read your post and you are completely right. The change is a big one and much different than what is commonly understood by a limited theosis. I should have acknowledged that in my reply. Sorry.
The LDS claim isn’t that they are another branch of Christian orthodoxy or a more refined version of the extant mainstream Christian churches, but a complete restoration. In that they are untethered from the Orthodox, the Catholic or the Catholic Reformers/Protestants.
That particular thread, that still in some degree binds the previous three viewpoints, is broken, but I don’t believe the LDS claim anything else. Their prophets all claim a different Jesus than the Trinitarian view.
I know that many of you see them as dissembling their views, but they are frank about them and you can get it all from their own website.
Or just by asking them individually.
and
The OT isn’t about a fight between polytheism and monotheism - that’s what atheists would have you believe. They argue for the evolution of religion, eventually ending in atheism or godlessness.
Really?
You say that atheist argue for the evolution of religion yet you say the Bible says Monotheism is not forever?
Okey Dokey.
Anywho, yes, I am entitled to my opinion as you are yours, but you are not entitled to make your own facts. We deal in reality here, something that your defense of the LDS fails at miserably.
There is no undermining of the Trinity in the NT and both the OLD and NEW testament proclaim the fact that there is only one God period.
This is especially evident in the OT you mention. The verses have been posted here ad nauseum and I know very well you know them, all the deceivers do, it is part of the shtick and the training/study for their game, be they true believers or con men using religion as part of their scheme.
It stands amazing to me that we still deal with these fringe ideas and hollow arguments even almost 2000 years after they were put to bed. Well not really, Christianity is a great tool for the con men. Of course the arguments get shot down by overwhelming proof and reason but only to those paying attention but the drive of men working under various motivations love to use them to their advantage. The LDS are perhaps the most "successful" of the lot to date I guess, but that is not a great achievement by any means.
And there you have it...
A totally different Jesus is not a Jesus of Christianity.
Finally things are settled.
Congrats professor...
You have this sentence backward.
We DO deny that LDSism is supported by the Bible and it's MORMONism that makes the suppostitions.
We WILL not waste our time defending the strawmen that you have sent out.
I’ve sent no strawmen.
I’ve strongly refuted wrong positions.
I’ve used the Bible.
The LDS get it right again and again.
You may disagree with their beliefs, but they are Biblical.
Theosis, anointings, works, faith, the Godhead, ordered church structure, and the expectation of wide-spread apostasy are all there in the Bible.
Something their PR department and many poster her refute and may take issue with right now due to the “We are Christians too!” PR campaign.
Which does lead to an interesting situation...
If they follow one Christ and Christians follow another, only one can be the True Christ...
If the Mormon one is the true one and the Christian Jesus is false, why the desire to be seen as Christian in the same vein as Orthodox Christianity?
If the Christian Jesus is the True Christ, well...
As far as the rest, after clearly demonstrating the fallacy of your theosis argument using your own link, now you are just being obtuse. Of course there is a reason for that, it is old hat among cultist to try and repeat the deceit over and over hoping to net a couple along the way...
BTW, I don't recall you ever answering my question about what faith you follow, what church you attend...
You want to be taken seriously you need to declare where you stand.
The LDS are non-Trinitarian Christians. They do not follow the Jesus Christ of the Trinity. Yet, in as much as the Bible describes Jesus Christ they follow the Jesus Christ of the Bible.
The New Testament supports:
1. Physical body of Jesus Christ.
2. Subordination of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, to God the Heavenly Father and the Holy Ghost subordinate to both.
3. The conception of “oneness”.
That someone chooses to believe in the Trinity doesn’t give them a monopoly over who is and isn’t Christian.
For that we need to look at the Bible and what it says.
There is not one item in lds that is Biblical.
There are not two coequal Christs here, one is true and the other false.
One could take from you continued arguments that the Tritarian one is the false Christ.
I find it odd that the LDS are working so hard to convince everyone that they are “Christians too” when referring to those of us following a false Christ in their eyes. Makes no sense, except from a PR stand point, and we know very well the PR department of the LDS is the highest authority they answer too. Even god bows to its changes.
As far as biblical support, it supports the Trinity period. You can take any number of verses on their own and twist them to look otherwise, but you have to fly in the face of an entire story line that tells us from the first entries in Genesis forward there is only one God.
Christianity is not a Polytheistic faith. Never has been never shall be, but it is odd that the off shoot sects and cults almost always focus on the opposite, and almost always that man can reach such status as being a god. I guess that is always a draw “Be a god yourself!” has a nice ring.
Believing in the Trinity is one of the core beliefs that makes one part of the Christian faith. That one is a follower of that gives them them right, through Christ and the lessons of his apostles about false teaching, prophets and gosples, to judge same and define who is and is not following the faith through their affiliation with such sects and cults.
That same judgment grants us the discernment to judge Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism is the same we can use to judge those who are equally false whilst claiming the mantle of Christ. Something that three faiths I mention above at least have the decency not to do.
What is it with you coy cultist anyways. Bold enough to demand attention and arrogantly pronounce everyone else wrong (regardless of evidence of the contrary). But never courageous enough to declare where you stand in a straightforward honest manner.
There have been several of you like that.
Well they do spell Jesus right...
Nope, it is a specific definition that makes the two exclusive of each other. It is not the imposition of the Trinity but the overwhelming statement from the Bible that there is and ever shall be only one be one True God in any existence.
One sees that within the definition of Theosis that man does not become a 'true' God any more that a woman's dog becomes a woman when it inherits the woman's estate (as has happened in some cases). This is in contrast to the mormon apotheosis where the mormon plans to become a 'true' god as mormon teaching is that they are the same species as heavenly father, jesus, etc.
It's been established that theosis in and of itself is not unChristian. So, it comes down to the Trinity and the Trinity alone.
Well weedhopper, need to sharpen your pencil again. The wall you can't seem to get around is the solidly biblical fact that there is only one true God in all existence - period.
Wrong again tadpole. Your entire argument is based upon the claim that the two (mormon and orthodox) ARE talking about the same thing.
I find it humorous for a FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIAN can so poorly represent mormonism on this point.
The LDS believe in advanced theosis which the Bible doesn't condemn, but actually encourages and points to.
Again, for a FUNDAMENTALIST CHRISTIAN, I find your ignorance on this point to be interesting. What part of this is that hard to understand
Isa 43:10* Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Isa 44:8* Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
Isa 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Isa 45:14* Thus saith the LORD, The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine: they shall come after thee; in chains they shall come over, and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee, saying, Surely God is in thee; and there is none else, there is no God.
Isa 45:21* Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
Mormon 'theosis', regardless of how 'advanced' you claim it to be is pagan apotheosis. Get with your afterschool friends and sharpen you pencils again, the bible clearly condemns mormon progression.
Mr Fundamentalist Christian - respond to the very specific citations from Isaiah that evidences monotheism to be forever.
Come on kid, leave the lying for the lord to the mormons. your posts are lacking in biblical citation supporting you 'views'
You may disagree with their beliefs, but they are Biblical.
Not really, they rely upon their 'other' scriptures for this 'doctrine', they are unable (just as you are) to defend it from the bible.
And yet it is amusing to see how blind you are to their doctrines and teachings.
Try polytheists - much more accurate term.
Subordination of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, to God the Heavenly Father and the Holy Ghost subordinate to both.
Go back and look up the term economy of the Trinity, there you will see that it is not discussing the ontology of the Trinity, but an organization within the Godhead.
3. The conception of “oneness”.
Only via their 'twistianity' and ignoring very clear scriptural passages that there is only ONE TRUE GOD (go back and re-read the Isaiah passages again). John 1:1 is not a oneness in 'purpose' but a oneness in essence and in so much as Jesus is called God, Isaiah precludes anything but a Trinity. Not surprising that the Trinitarian formulas are present so early in the NT writings.
That someone chooses to believe in the Trinity doesn’t give them a monopoly over who is and isn’t Christian.
Ah contare mon amimie, it is the fundamental basis of Christianity, Mormon Jesus is created, Christian Trinitarian Jesus is the Eternal God - one Jesus will lead you into a false faith in works, the other will give you eternal life by grace through faith. Certainly a fundamentalist christian should know those differences.
Explained further in the second to last Q and A
More specifically, that LDS doctrine says that God the Father had a father-God who had a father-God who had a father-God, etc.
In that doctrine, God is “a” God not “the” God. He is “a” Creator not “the” Creator.
Catholics, Orthodox, Protestants, Independents and Non-Denominationals may disagree on many things, but they virtually all agree on Who God IS.
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: - Romans 1:20
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. – John 1:1-4
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether [they be] thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence. For it pleased [the Father] that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.– Colossians 1:15-20
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. – Isaiah 9:6
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: - Matthew 28:19
Amen
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