Posted on 08/13/2010 2:55:22 PM PDT by NYer
Mary is shown being taken up to heaven in a painting inside the Basilica of the National Shrine of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary in Baltimore (CNS file photo/Nancy Wiechec)
The definition of the Assumption in 1950 caused some dismay. As I recall, Protestants were angry because it wasn’t in Scripture. The Archbishop of York, standing beneath his cathedral’s 600 year old Assumption roof-boss, deplored it as an innovation. The position of the Orthodox was more nuanced: they believed it, of course, but were furious that the Pope had defined it.
Decades later, earnest Catholics were wont to lament it as the regrettable climax of a sad period of outdated and retrograde Mariology (they didn’t know JPII was coming soon).
So what do we believe? “The Immaculate Mother of God, having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul to heavenly glory.”
Why do we believe it? Briefly, because the Church tells us, and what the Church teaches from revelation. God teaches. (“O my God I believe in you and all your Church teaches, because you have said it and your word is true”.) What the Church teaches, notice; not the best guess of every theologian. If you have a New Testament handy, look up Mt 16:17-19 and Mt 28:18-20.
But what about Scripture? Briefly, the Church thinks that Scripture, rightly understood, teaches that Mary was immaculately conceived, and that the Assumption would follow. That totally sinless body would not be allowed by her Son to be undeservedly disfigured by decay or any touch of Satan’s work.
Notice in passing that the only reason we believe Scripture tells the truth is because the Church says so. It is the Church which is the “pillar and foundation upon which the truth rests” (1 Tim 3 15); it is the Church which wrote the New Testament, selected the contents, edited it and tells us how to handle it.
Problems from science? We say a “body” (matter) is “in” (a place) “heaven”. Are we not involved in insoluble mysteries? Well, yes, we are. These are the same puzzles we have about the Resurrection – and still more about the Blessed Sacrament. But the puzzles are because we do not understand matter, not because we believe in fairy stories.
Finally, what does the Assumption mean? It means joy, beauty, reward, bounty, the masterpiece of creation… For Jesus, it means that His human love is able to be given totally; for Our Lady, that she can humanly and totally respond to Him. (In heaven there is adoration for our Lord not just by spirits – angels and the saints – but by a real human being with a body). Mary has the reward so richly deserved by her total love. We’re glad for Jesus’s sake, for Mary’s, for the angels and saints who rejoice in their good. And we’re glad for our sake, too: what she has we will have one day – she is our Mother.
David danced before the Ark and the High Priest prayed before it. If these things were appropriate in regard to the material "shadow of the thing to come" - i.e. Mary - then how much more fitting is it that we should celebrate Mary and pray to Christ through her?
These are the sort of questions the early Church asked itself and the answer was that Mary was worthy of praise and was, like the Ark before her, the most obvious vessel that contained Christ and through whom Christ could be most directly approached.
I grew up Catholic and I understand that some Marian devotions can get a bit extreme. But I think that Scripture supports - and indeed compels - that the veneration of Mary as the vessel of Christ is a normative part of Christian worship, just as the Ark of the Covenant was a central part of OT Temple worship.
I would think that you owe the Religion Moderator an apology because of that misplaced accusation.
ecumenical (adjective) of, relating to, or representing the whole of a body of churches b : promoting or tending toward worldwide Christian unity or cooperationIt doesn't mean calling a narrow and novel interpretation of doctrine the shibboleth by which everyone else is excluded.
Present your ideas to the Religion Moderator. I doubt that he is looking for solutions, though. I realize I can’t speak for him/her, but that is my opinion since that rules have been around for awhile.
BTW, I’m not looking for any solution either, so no thanks.
Click on my profile page for the guidelines.
Also, if you'd like to debate the RF guidelines, then start a new thread for that purpose. Antagonism is not tolerable on RF threads labeled "ecumenical."
“The definition of the Assumption in 1950 caused some dismay. As I recall,... The position of the Orthodox was more nuanced: they believed it, of course, but were furious that the Pope had defined it.”
The good father’s memory has failed him here. Orthodox Christians were not and are not “furious” that Pius XII felt compelled to dogmatize the 1600 year old theologoumennon of the bodily Assumption of Panagia. It simply had no effect on Orthodox Christians other than perhaps to sadden them that it had to be done at all. And of course, in the West, the pope can do what he wants, short of teaching heresy and MUNIFICENTISSIMUS DEUS is certainly not heresy.
The author of the posted article states:
“Why do we believ”e it? Briefly, because the Church tells us, and what the Church teaches from revelation.”
That’s generous of the author. Pope Pius apparently wanted to make sure of compliance and wrote:
“45. Hence if anyone, which God forbid, should dare willfully to deny or to call into doubt that which we have defined, let him know that he has fallen away completely from the divine and Catholic Faith.
....
47. It is forbidden to any man to change this, our declaration, pronouncement, and definition or, by rash attempt, to oppose and counter it. If any man should presume to make such an attempt, let him know that he will incur the wrath of Almighty God and of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul.” MUNIFICENTISSIMUS DEUS
Orthodox Christians prepare for the great feast of the Dormition with 14 days of fasting and weekly special devotions called “paraklesis”. To us it seems, as it has for 1600 years at least,...”truly meet to bless you, Theotokos, ever blessed, most pure, and mother of our God. More honorable than the Cherubim, and beyond compare more glorious than the Seraphim, who without corruption gave birth to God the Word.”
My Mexican soloist’s name is Asuncion. I plan to give her an extra big hug, a rose, (and a large sack of tomatoes and peppers) this morning!
And how are you, Uncle K.? I have missed you and the Greek insight.
“My Mexican soloist’s name is Asuncion. I plan to give her an extra big hug, a rose, (and a large sack of tomatoes and peppers) this morning!”
Wish her a blessed nameday!
“I have missed you and the Greek insight.”
You are, as I have said in the past, too kind, dear lady!
Do Greeks use names like “Assumption,” or something similar in Greek? It’s very uncommon for English-speakers, but in Spanish, and particularly in the Philippines for some reason, there’s a great variety of names from the lives of Jesus and Mary.
And I’m just being honest, not kind.
Classic example of perfect circular reasoning.
Matthew 3When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 20Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.
Says nothing about infallibly
Matthew 28:18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
They were sent to preach what Christ had told them, not to make things up and call them revelation
To believe in the assumption because "the church says so " is taking doctrine on faith alone
The church says it is the infallible teacher so what they teach must be true..
Sola Ecclesia Romanus
Only the Church of Rome is the Rule of Faith
To believe this "doctrine" one must believe that not one of the writers found it important enough to write about in the text of scripture..
“Do Greeks use names like “Assumption,” or something similar in Greek?”
Not that I can remember, TC. We don’t call the feast the Assumption. We call it the Dormition, or falling asleep, of the Most Holy Theotokos. We do have the name Panagiota (masc. Panagiotis)which comes from Panagia, the All Holy Woman, meaning the Theotokos. I had an uncle Panagiotis and I have a cousin Panagiota.
I can see a person naming their child “Falling Asleep,” in the hope that they would, someday, for up to 8 hours ...
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