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To: markomalley; Jim Noble
I would doubt that there would be a Catholic on FR who would disagree with you. The level of catechesis both through CCD and in Catholic schools is appalling.

I converted to Protestantism (Baptist) in 1987 (then to Charismatic/pentecostal in 1992). I was raised Catholic. For me, Catholicism was dry and sterile. There was no relationship with God there was only follow the rules. Having a personal relationship with Christ was never, ever mentioned at any of the parishes I attended.

I was not actively proselytized by anyone at the first church I attended. My conversion came about from a Christmas gift that my fiance gave me. A bible.

"Hmmm" I thought, "What do I do with this?". We had a bible in our house when I was a kid. The big, choke-a-mule, left open on the bookstand and never ever moved sort. BUt this was different. This was a book. So what do you do with a book? You read it.

Somewhere between Genesis and Revelation I came to understand that God wanted more from us thanjust following the rules. God wanted to know each of us on a personal basis through His Son Jesus. This was a radical idea to me. Needless to say I listened to the call of the spirit and become saved.

(Please note that there are saved Catholics (and lost Protestants) I just had never met one to my knowledge at that time)

The trouble is that this is the second, and, in some cases, the third generation who never have been educated in their own faith.

Faith is not hereditary. If they haven't been taught, if they do not believe, then they are not a part of the faith no matter how many generations have been believers before them.

And so parents have a hard time taking on their responsibilities as the primary educators of their children because they don't know either.

This is true.

31 posted on 08/02/2010 7:48:25 AM PDT by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: John O; Jim Noble
I converted to Protestantism (Baptist) in 1987 (then to Charismatic/pentecostal in 1992). I was raised Catholic. For me, Catholicism was dry and sterile. There was no relationship with God there was only follow the rules. Having a personal relationship with Christ was never, ever mentioned at any of the parishes I attended.

I know a lot of people who feel that way. I find it really to be a shame. But, again, that comes down to a really poor level of catechesis. Catechesis is not only learning the rules and regs. It is not only memorization. It is helping a person know how to establish that close personal relationship with the Triune God.

Sterile: just praying the Rosary prayers. Active, deep, and very rich: praying the Rosary prayers while actively meditating on the events of our salvation highlighted in the mysteries of the Rosary.

Sterile: going to Mass every Sunday and Holy Days and waiting until it is over with...so you can get on to softball practice.

Active, deep, and very rich: going to Mass every Sunday, Holy Days (and maybe even on weekdays)...praying beforehand...reading and pondering on the Scriptures presented in the Liturgy of the Word...and offering yourself as a living sacrifice to God (Rom 12:1) up on the altar with the Victim...

Sterile: going to confession when absolutely required and listing all the sins you commit, waiting for the priest to absolve you.

Active, deep, and very rich: valuing your relationship with God above all else and rushing to confession when your actions have wounded that relationship in order to establish it. Truly examining your conscience every day to see where you have fallen short of what God holds for you, feeling genuinely contrite at that point, and truly resolving to live the fullness of what God has given us. Truly recognizing that the priest, acting in persona Christi capitas, is ministering healing to your soul and being able to feel totally clean from the inside out when you walk out.

And so on.

I have seen SO MANY Catholics who fit inside the first category (what you called accurately sterile) that it breaks my heart.

I was not actively proselytized by anyone at the first church I attended. My conversion came about from a Christmas gift that my fiance gave me. A bible...The big, choke-a-mule, left open on the bookstand and never ever moved sort. BUt this was different. This was a book. So what do you do with a book? You read it.

And that is sort of a funny thing. Were you, before you left, aware that there are indulgences offered for daily Scripture reading and meditation on the Scriptures? If not, it wouldn't surprise me, as most Catholics are, in fact, unaware of that fact. And, again, it shocks me when I consider it. How many Catholics don't realize that their faith is founded in the words and deeds of Christ, given to the apostles, recorded in that book, and passed on from generation to generation? How can they possibly have a true understanding of their own faith without cracking open that book?

Needless to say I listened to the call of the spirit and become saved.

Well, I am very glad to hear that. I think it is a tragedy that you had to leave the Church in order to do so. It is a real indictment against those of us who are in the Church. Both in how you were taught as a youth and then how poorly you were shepherded as a young adult. And I think it is a real lesson that we should all take to heart. Not only one for the clergy, but one for the laity as well.

32 posted on 08/02/2010 8:15:55 AM PDT by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: John O

You wrote:

“Having a personal relationship with Christ was never, ever mentioned at any of the parishes I attended.”

Probably because that terminology was never used by Christians until a handful of years ago. It certainly was never used before 1850. The way evangelicals speak about “Having a personal relationship with Christ” has nothing to do with the Bible (the terminology is entirely foreign to scripture), has no place in tradition and seems to have been invented only recently in the last few decades. Maybe that’s why you never heard it discussed that way in a 2,000 year old Church.

I’m just sayin’...


33 posted on 08/02/2010 9:01:43 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Part of the Vast Catholic Conspiracy (hat tip to Kells))
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