The Messianic Seal of the Church in Jerusalem

Jewish Roots of Christianity--threemacs.org ^

[Amerisrael]

"This symbol represents a recent discovery in terms of how the early church identified itself... whether you see 1, 2, or 3 symbols may depend on whether you have discernment in your identity as a Gentile believer in the Jewish Messiah..."

[Key excerpts]:

"You see, God has made ONE NEW MAN from TWO distinct parts.... Jewish and Gentile believers in ONE BODY of MESSIAH..

"Many in the Church today feel that 'we Gentiles' as the Church have somehow replaced national Israel and the Jewish people in terms of the covenant promises of God... and this has in turn affected how many read and interpret the Bible in regard to Israel."

"So why does this symbol have anything to do with that?? The Evangelical Press News Service (EP) released an article in July of 1999 that quoted the following:

"A Messianic Seal from the Christian church in ancient Jerusalem has been rediscovered after 2,000 years. This ancient symbol was found on Mount Zion. It is believed to have been created and used by the Jewish believers who called themselves Nazarenes in the first Messianic Church."

[also]:

"The Messianic Seal of the Jerusalem Church, the ancient three-part symbol has, since 135 AD, been suppressed by various Israeli groups or agencies, such as the Israel Museum and Orthodox rabbis in the Old City of Jerusalem, while simultaneously being buried for these nearly two millennia by the church."

[be sure to read the full article]

[boycott]

Interesting reading.

[GulfWar1Vet]

Thanks for posting.

[bronx2]

WRONG WRONG WRONG

I discern the distinct symbols of heresy born of Satan and given to confuse those entrusted to Christ. Excise your fanciful flights of imagination and accept the word of Jesus without this messianic seal which comes from the Father of all Lies.You have eyes but can't see and ears but can't hear.

G_d made us in His image and likeness and not from this two distinct part heresy which you have presented. Current Jews are secular humanistic beings in the vanguard of promoting the agnostic/atheistic messages to all via the university systems and mass media. These Jews reject all ranting about some inane secessionist christian theology. Spend time in the Holy Land at the sacred places which your ilk has no share in because like the virgins who missed the masters arrival you arrived too late.

If you aren’t up on your complex writings from church theologians and doctors of the early church you have no business commenting from the standpoint of your simple and unstudied faith. Please refrain from commenting and those with true understanding will summons you if needed.

Finally when using a date like 135A.D. use C.E. Your reference is so anti-Semitic that it labels you as a Jewish hater.

[Mmogamer]

Uh, dude... why is this a heresy?

[Tzfat]

Are you serious? You 180 degrees out of phase.

[bronx2]

For hundreds of years false prophets like Darby have predicted when the rule would be restored to Israel. Yet in Acts 1, 6:8, Jesus tell us it is not for us to know. Read you bibles since you are bible thumpers and leave the divination to the Lord and those He has appointed to guide. It is obvious reading the linked message provided in this thread that, notwithstanding, the references to Sacred Scripture, the author is making their own sinful and prideful interpretation.

[CdMGuy]

Ouch!!! Makes me embarrassed to say I was born in the Bronx. Are you having a bad hair day?

[Mmogamer]

Ok.

[Amerisrael]

You are in extreme error. And I would venture the horrible error of “replacement theology”, which over the course of centuries has been a catalyst for anti-semitism against the Jews.

The article posted and it’s subject matter has nothing to do with any man named “Darby”. Nor does it have anything to do with “end-times”.

It is an article concerning the Jewish-Hebraic roots of those of us who have come to embrace the Jewish Messiah Yeshua, and have benefited from the forgiveness of all our sins,

and have been “grafted-in” and made partakers of the salvation that Yeshua [Jesus] plainly said in John 4:22 “...is of the Jews.”

Speaking to a Samaritan woman the Messiah said,-

“You people don’t know what you are worshipping; we worship what we do know, because salvation comes from the Jews”.

How’s that for “interfaith-dialogue”?

Bold, powerfull words spoken by the One whao is in the utmost position of authority to know.

You seem to echo the talking points of anti-Israel leftists folks like Mikey Weinstein who was the one primarily responsible for having the Rev. Franklin Graham banned from National Day of Prayer activities at the Pentagon.

They banned him because he had the fortitude and honesty to have spoken the truth about Islam. That it is an evil violent wicked religion. He knows, his ministry has done much work in Islamist countries.

This alliance of leftists/Islamists haters of Israel and the Jews are always trouting their bogus “end-times slander” garbage against good people like Sarah Palin and Franklin Graham.

[Dr. Sivana]

Finally when using a date like 135A.D. use C.E. Your reference is so anti-Semitic that it labels you as a Jewish hater.

Tell ya what. Use the Jewish calendar if you like, but it is A.D. There are plenty of Jewish PhDs whose degrees say A.D. on them, and these doctors happily accepted them. It doesn't have to mean any more to you than Christians or Jews actually honoring the Norse god Woden on Wednesday (Woden's Day). But it is A.D. If you want us to be politically correct or risk being called anti-semitic, you've come to the wrong board. You cheapen the term when you accuse everyone using it of anti-semitism. Save it for the real thing.

[bronx2]

You need to disabuse yourself of the idea that Replacement Theology exists anywhere expect perhaps in your paranoia. .

Salvation is indeed from the Jews as we have the living testimony of Roy Schoeman graduate of Harvard and MIT who born a Jew has become a more perfect believer and has written a best selling book “Salvation is from the Jews”. Roy who has experienced visions from heaven, has related that worshiping Yeshua is a more perfect method of worshiping the Lord and so entered this transition process to more perfect exhibition of worshiping our savior.

How is that for interfaith sharing transcending any false meanings conjured up in the minds in those league with the Father of all Lies.I realize you adhere to the agnostic secular humanistic philosophy touted by the majority of those who claim to be Jews and wallow in the message of these cultural /secular Jews which resonates in your mind. You need to wallow in the eternal words of Yeshua.

[bronx2]

Jewish scholars accepting their credentials with A.D. on them is evidence of the continuation of the mindless antisemitism foisted on Jews by those who do not believe that Salvation Is from the Jews. Those who are Jewish and worship accordingly take exception to A.D. and would prefer to use the Jewish calendar. Haven't Jews suffered enough under the jack booted thugs who utter thoughts similar to yours?

[Dr. Sivana]

Jewish scholars accepting their credentials with A.D. on them is evidence of the continuation of the mindless antisemitism foisted on Jews by those who do not believe that Salvation Is from the Jews.

They didn't complain about it at the time, and they are grown men who are more than competent enough to do so. You do not have the authority to speak on their behalf.

There is real anti-semitism out there, and when you call someone who says "A.D." and sticks to it "speaking like a jack-booted thug," you make it harder to notice the real thing, which often uses misleading language, but has a very real explicit contempt for Jewish people (by cultural heritage or creed). I suspect 90% of the Freepers use A.D. and have no intention of stopping. If you would like to suggest that we all speak like jack-booted thugs, you may find yourself unwelcome here, we can get that from Democratic Underground. Calling a real living human being speaking like a jack booted thug is far more offensive than someone using the traditionally standard term A.D. to denote a date, rather than to adopt one created by secularists.

I hope you don't use terms like "Saturday" and "Wednesday" and "Sunday" as they all relate to pagan deities.

[bronx2]

How do you know these learned scholars did not object to A.D. on their degrees but were rebuffed into the dustbins of hatred. The seething hatred borne silently by the Jew for seeing A.D. used as a date clearly demonstrates your indifference to the plight and suffering of these individuals.

The real antisemitism resides in those who do or did nothing and remained silent during the Holocaust. Whar did you or America do for the Jew in WWII to mitigate Jewish suffering?

[Dr. Sivana]

How do you know these learned scholars did not object to A.D. on their degrees but were rebuffed into the dustbins of hatred

I have read their columns in "Commentary" for decades. Never uttered a word about it. In fact, they never complained of the usage at all. If "A.D." bothered them so much, they could have simply gone to Yeshiva. I'm not even Jewish, and Yeshiva invited me to apply.

The seething hatred borne silently by the Jew for seeing A.D. used as a date clearly demonstrates your indifference to the plight and suffering of these individuals.

The seething hatred is their problem. Do they hate Wednesday and Saturday, too?

What did you or America do for the Jew in WWII to mitigate Jewish suffering?

I wasn't born yet.

[bronx2]

Rabbi Shumley Botech in a moving diatribe against the use of A.D described it as a surreptitious sign of antisemitism In his books Dershowitz reiterates this theme yet you blithely dismiss this overtly antisemitic sign as being nothing. You demonstrate no empirical evidence that you are a friend of the Jew.

[Dr. Sivana]

I am unfamiliar with the work of Rabbi Shumley Botech. His saying it is a sign of anti-Semitism does not make it so.

I know that Orthodox Rabbi Yehuda Levin, who I greatly admire had no problem being part of a conference (Wanderer Forum) that uses A.D. exclusively and frequently.

Do you really consider Alan Dershowitz to be someone to cite in defense of Judaism?! Isn’t he to Judaism what Ted Kennedy was to Catholicism? Are you a conservative at all?

I don’t need to prove I am a friend of the Jew. I certainly don’t consider you the authority to make the call.

By the way, are you offended by Saturday, Sunday and Wednesday, like you are by A.D.?

[bronx2]

A.D. offends more since it represents a more recent nexus to hatred of the Jew than the pagans of ancient periods. Thus, your companions fail on that account. Dershowitz in one of his works makes an admission against self interest when he stated that for Judaism to survive it would need the orthodox so he does espouse some conservative positions especially in speeches in an oblique manner

[Dr. Sivana]

A.D. offends more since it represents a more recent nexus to hatred of the Jew than the pagans of ancient periods.

This is called "begging the question." In any event, even if you use C.E., we are still talking about the same event that splits history between B.C. and A.D.

If you find A.D. offensive because of this "nexus to hatred," then ANY overt displace or public practice of Christianity would share the same nexus. There is no reason you can't simply accept A.D. as a standard convention just as you apparently accept the days of the week.

Dershowitz' statement on Orthodox Judaism does not rescue him. It only proves him a hypocrite. I would much rather use Rabbi Levin, Midge Dector or Don Feder on a nice conservative board like this. For those who like their conservatism lite, Michael Medved sometimes offers a good insight. And many of us appreciated Dr. Laura's insights whatever her religion of the moment, because she at least espoused conservative principles consistently. I know of none of them having a problem with A.D.

Jewish people as a group have not been particularly noted for keeping quiet when they offended. That is a good thing. So, when a whole television mini-series comes out at NBC called "A.D.", and no one from the ADL to Commentary Magazine has a problem with the title, I would maintain that your position that it is deeply and rightly offensive is not universally held. Oh, and this year Director Benjamin Hibon brings us a zombie flick entitled, you guessed it ... "A.D."