You wrote:
“Hmm, name-calling; that’s one of the first defenses of a bad argument (namely argumentum ad hominem).”
It’s also an accurate labeling of the anti-Catholic. I don’t shy away from accurate labeling.
“My purported “ignorance” must be based on my having been raised in a Catholic country and taught by Catholic clergy and laymen in my youth, is that it?”
No. 1) I have no reaosn to believe you or your story. I have known too many anti-Catholics to lie. 2) Your supposed upbringing doesn’t guarantee knowledge of the faith. I have known far too many “raised in a Catholic country and taught by Catholic clergy and laymen in my youth” claimants who are in fact ignorant of the faith to assume they possess any detailed knowledge of the faith.
“Why not? In the RCC, the Pope is the authority, not the Bible.”
False. The Church has three sources of teaching authority: the Magisterium is one, the Bible and Tradition are the others. And you claim to have been taught the faith when you were young?
“The prima scriptura doctrine allows for secondary sources other than the Bible;”
Sola scriptura is an unscriptural sham. Variants thereof are in the same category.
“but one must note that such goes against the injunctions in verses such as Deuteronomy 12:32 and Revelation 22:18-19.”
Sola scriptura is an addition to scripture.
“There are also discrepancies in wording; the RCC also substitutes “the Lord’s day” for “the sabbath day” when paraphrasing Exodus 20:8”
There is no discrepancy. The Catechetical Formula is a paraphrase. It was not intended or necessary for it to be verbatim. Also, Christians are not bound to 7th day as the day of worship. Even in the time of Acts Christians were worshiping on Sundays as well as Saturdays: Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:1-2.
“(and frankly, that link to the text of the Catechism that you gave us verifies exactly what I said, as well as when I pointed out that Exodus 20:4-6 are removed from mention, so instead of disproving me, you’ve actually upheld what I said).”
No, actually it disproved you. As I explained - and anti-Catholic people have a hard time accepting reality - there are three forms of the commandments in the CCC. No commandment was dropped. You were simply wrong.
“The Bible says “ten commandments” in Exodus 34:28, Deuteronomy 4:13 and 10:4; and the latter two verses are direct quotes from Moses.”
Where in scripture does it tell you, “And this is the Fourth Commandment...” It never happens that way in scripture. Never. We are never told any numbering system at all. Ever.
“One can “group” them in only one way (remember, God is not the author of confusion, and to imply otherwise also implies that the words inspired in Scripture are faulty); omissions are a violation of the law per Deuteronomy 12:32, not to mention what Jesus said in Matthew 5:18 and Luke 16:17.”
Again, tell me where in scripture does it tell you, “And this is the Fourth Commandment...” It never happens that way in scripture. Never. Not once. You can’t even use “Thou shall not” as a way to delineate the commandments because that phrase is used about ten times in the commandments and is not used in “Remember the Sabbath” or in “Honor your father and your mother.”
“There’s no mistaking what the scripture actually says. Even in older English, it’s quite clear and emphatic, and not in parable form.”
Parable form? What on earth is that? And I got news for you, the Catechetical Formula is just about as old as English Christianity.
“BTW, you used “ignorant” five times in your reply. Using argumentum ad hominem multiple times in a post doesn’t suddenly render validity to the fallacy.”
No, but using proper labeling is proper labeling. I am not shy of proper labeling. I am also being vindicated by your posting.
“BTW: I take it that you’re not arguing in favor of Sunday?”
Scripture, tradition and the Magisterium all do. You, on the other hand, only have illegitimate 19th century SDA flavored sectarian proof texting.
Poor attempt to justify your ad hominems.
It’s also an accurate labeling of the anti-Catholic. I don’t shy away from accurate labeling
Labeling and accusation of lying. Well, that's between you and God; and as it's written, by their fruits ye shall know them.
I have no reaosn to believe you or your story. I have known too many anti-Catholics to lie
Sounds like you've been shot down too many times to count, especially when your knee-jerk reaction is to call them ignorant and liars. This is getting very reminiscent of James 3:8.
Your supposed upbringing doesn’t guarantee knowledge of the faith. I have known far too many “raised in a Catholic country and taught by Catholic clergy and laymen in my youth” claimants who are in fact ignorant of the faith to assume they possess any detailed knowledge of the faith
There can only be one authority, not multiple ones. There's a reason why one of God's names is "One" (Zechariah 14:9). Jesus condemned tradition (Matthew 15:6, Mark 7:13). And yes, the whole thing about magisterial authority and tradition were questions that made me look in the scriptures, as well as the matter of the sabbath; there's a reason why the seventh day is given special prominence in the first chapter of Genesis, after all, and the Hebrew word translated "forever" (olam) really does mean "forever".
The Church has three sources of teaching authority: the Magisterium is one, the Bible and Tradition are the others. And you claim to have been taught the faith when you were young?
I didn't mention sola scriptura, but anything that is not of God is of men, and that cannot be ignored.
Sola scriptura is an unscriptural sham
Do I have to repeat the omitted text?
No, actually it disproved you. As I explained - and anti-Catholic people have a hard time accepting reality - there are three forms of the commandments in the CCC. No commandment was dropped. You were simply wrong
"You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments."Now none of that text appears in what's quoted from the Catechism. And as for reality, that's exactly what appears in the Bible; Jesus said that not one jot nor tittle will pass from the law (Matthew 5:18, from iota and keraia respectively, referring to the Hebrew letter yod and the serifs of those letters).
Ex. 20:4-6, ESV
Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.There is but one place that the Greek word ioudaizo (or "judaizo") appears in the Greek text (Galatians 2:14), and that refers to Jewish tradition that is outside of scripture (which Jesus condemned in Matthew 15:6 and Mark 7:13, once more); this is why Paul mentioned that the apostles were "not walk(ing) uprightly according to the truth of the gospel" (and gospel comes from the Hebrew word basorah in Isaiah 61:1, translated into Greek evangelizesthai, a tense of evangelion or "gospel", in Luke 4:12).
Notwithstanding, the Bible does indeed call them "ten commandments" and tells us to not omit a single word, which means that you should include the phrase "who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage" in the first commandment.
Where in scripture does it tell you, “And this is the Fourth Commandment...” It never happens that way in scripture. Never. We are never told any numbering system at all. Ever
Neither of those verses mention worship or resting from labor. The apostles preached on all days of the week, but went into the temple and synagogues especially on the seventh day, just as Jesus did. As for the "collection for the saints", refer to Romans 15:25-28, which explains what that was about (and if you think that I'm trying to be deceptive, note Isaiah 28:10, and even more so the timeline of those letters of Paul).
Even in the time of Acts Christians were worshiping on Sundays as well as Saturdays: Acts 20:7, 1 Corinthians 16:1-2
Any Catholic would know what I was talking about. My mother, one of the most ardent (and conservative!) Catholics I know, taught me about parables and the form they took. None of the Commandments are parables; they're straightforward.
Parable form? What on earth is that?
The Masoretic text does not date from the nineteenth century, nor does the Majority Greek text. (And frankly, the King James Bible was finalized in the very early 17th Century.)
Scripture, tradition and the Magisterium all do. You, on the other hand, only have illegitimate 19th century SDA flavored sectarian proof texting
“The Catholic church, for over 1,000 years before the existence of a Protestant, by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday…You may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day we never sanctify.”