Testimony of a Former Irish Priest

BereanBeacon.Org ^ | Richard Peter Bennett

[smvoice]

"Being confident of this very thing, that HE WHICH HATH BEGUN A GOOD WORK IN YOU WILL PERFORM IT UNTIL THE DAY OF JESUS CHRIST." (Philippians 1:6).

Don't you see, Mark. It's not even the believer that is living his life before God.

"I am crucified with Christ; nevertheless I live; YET NOT I, but CHRIST LIVETH IN ME; and the LIFE WHICH I NOW LIVE in the flesh, I live BY THE FAITH OF THE SON OF GOD, who loved me, and gave Himself for me." (Gal. 2:20).

From the moment of salvation until the day of Jesus Christ that good work that was begun in me by God will continue in me, by God. It's the HE that began it and it's the HE that performs it until the day of Jesus Christ. Not me. He.

[GourmetDan]

"Ah, so GourmetDan tells me to grow up. And face the fact that a person can lose their salvation."

Obviously you received the message. Now what will you do with it?

"Fortunately, for me, GourmetDan did not die for my sins, and I am not saved by GourmetDan."

Ah, set that strawman up and knock him down! Doesn't that feel all better? Now you don't have to respond to the message you received.

"And this is not the dispensation of GourmetDan. Based on faith and works for salvation. We are not in the Dispensation of Law or the Kingdom, GourmetDan. We are in the Dispensation of the Grace of God. You will find it from Romans through Philemon. That is where you will find your salvation, GourmetDan."

Having accepted the hellish doctrine of OSAS, following that with the hellish doctrine of dispensationalism is all too typical of immature believers.

"Unless you wish to be under the law to establish your righteousness before God."

Ah, the fallacy of the false dichotomy. Either I accept dispensationalism and OSAS or I am trying to justify myself under the law.

"We can have confidence that we are in the will of God in our determination to stand fast in liberty and allow GOD'S GRACE to do ITS work in OUR lives."

There are simply too many verses on obedience for you to imply that obedience equals personal righteousness as a means to salvation. You do love your fallacies and strawmen, eh?

1 John 5 - "Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands."

"As long as we are on this earth, we are not perfect. We don't claim to be perfect. We are saved and awaiting His coming and His changing our vile body unto a glorious body. That is not going to happen by the things we do. It's what HE has done that make it possible."

You are confused. No one said you had to be perfect, or that anyone claimed to be perfect or that Christ would not change your vile body into a glorious body because you have earned it through your works rather than his work. But you do love your fallacies and strawmen...

"One more thing, GourmetDan...The bible has something to say about Growing Up.. "But speaking the truth in love, may GROW UP into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:" (Eph. 4:15).

I said "Grow up, please" and you did notice that 'speaking the truth' is part of the verse you quoted, right? Was that not loving enough for you or are you simply offended because I spoke the truth to you? Would you prefer that I lie to you and leave out that which offends you?

Proverbs 18:19 - "An offended brother is more unyielding than a fortified city, and disputes are like the barred gates of a citadel."

[GourmetDan]

"Grow up to be like you??? Shirley you jest..."

This is to hugh and series to jest.

"You mean to tell me/us that you can't find a single verse in the scriptures that show a person is sealed until the day of redemption; that a person can't lose his/her salvation???"

You mean to tell me that you didn't understand a word of what I said???

[GourmetDan]

"I would go even beyond that and simply attribute it to the emotional need for surety. If you walk up to somebody and say: believe in me and you will go to Heaven, and walk up to somebody else and say: believe in me and imitate me and when you go to Heaven, you will be Judged upon that imitation and your eternal Judgement will be based upon that imitation, who might you be convincing more easily?"

That's why those who believe these doctrines are typically new or immature, do not know or understand the Scriptures and need someone to tell them what to believe. How else can they ignore, Philippians 2:12 - "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Makes the responsibility pretty personal,doesn't it? Corporate salvation is typically a symptom of legalistic-thinking.

In discussing topics with pastors at two different churches I attended over the years, they admitted that they agreed with certain arguments but responded that they had "signed the paper" and had therefore bound themselves to teach that which the denomination requires (different denominations, btw). Imagine men who felt called of God and then let other men tell them what to teach.

Sad, but true.

[Iscool]

The problem with a simple statement of: you must believe in order to be saved, is that what does that belief consist of? The whole history of the Church is trying to define what that belief should be.

Maybe your church can't figure it out but other churches certainly have...

The Oneness Pentecostals, for instance, believe in only One God and that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one person all combined. Does that remove them from consideration for salvation? If not, then where is the line?

Catholicism attempts to define such things and calls them doctrine. How loose can one be? Can one be Wiccan and be saved? Can one be Jehovah's Witness and be saved? If so, why?

The Catholic religion is a religion of legalisms...You must do this and you must do that...You must hold the cup the right way...If you do things just right, you MAY receive salvation after you die...

There's not too many things required to become a Christian...

One is to realize that you are lost and are in need of a Savior, and there's nothing you can do to save yourself...IF you don't know you need a Savior, there's nothing to be saved from, or to...

Of course God can save a Wiccan, a Jehova's Witness and a Muzlim...It's a little tougher, but God can even save a Catholic...

The real question is: how does one remain in the same religion AFTER being saved...And there are a number of reasons why some people do...

Some have been in the same religion for so long, they don't know how to leave...Some have friends and family they don't want to leave...They were baptized in that church, etc...

But many, or most do leave their non Christian religions...

[smvoice]

Your 'truth' is not worth the time it takes to post it.

"Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not:

But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, and walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of THE TRUTH commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

But if OUR GOSPEL be hid, it is hid to them that are lost;

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.

For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. (2Cor. 4:1-5).

"The glorious gospel of Christ". "Our gospel". Perhaps a person should find out just what this gospel is. Because if that person is basing his salvation on Christ plus works, he are not following the gospel that saves. And his mind has been blinded by the god of this world. Who, by the way, always desired to add to God's Word. Even now. Christ's FINISHED WORK isn't enough. Our works MUST be added to His FINISHED WORK. Straight from the god of this world. Designed to keep a person focused on his works. And off the Finished work of Christ.

A lost man's work is never done..

[GourmetDan]

"Your 'truth' is not worth the time it takes to post it."

There's another lie from the pits of hell.

""The glorious gospel of Christ". "Our gospel". Perhaps a person should find out just what this gospel is. Because if that person is basing his salvation on Christ plus works, he are not following the gospel that saves. And his mind has been blinded by the god of this world. Who, by the way, always desired to add to God's Word. Even now. Christ's FINISHED WORK isn't enough. Our works MUST be added to His FINISHED WORK. Straight from the god of this world. Designed to keep a person focused on his works. And off the Finished work of Christ."

Here's a little test for you then. Where in the Bible is the gospel plainly stated?

"A lost man's work is never done.."

Let's see how long that task keeps you busy...

[smvoice]

Funny, you are. I'm not working my way to heaven. I already know it cannot be done. That is best left to those who are puffed up in their vanity to think they could possibly do anything to add to the FINISHED WORK OF CHRIST.

Hint: the gospel of your salvation does not reside where you appear to think it does. You find it. It should be cake walk to someone who is counting on IT plus their own righteousness for salvation.

[Iscool]

Then does that make you responsible for your own salvation?

Sure. Saying yes is not enough. It is essential, but not enough. How many who cry Lord, Lord, will not be saved?

What dog are you trying to beat??? You're beating the same dog as the one you are accusing me of beating but the only difference is you claim you have to do something besides consent to your salvation...You have to do 'other' things as well...

And even tho you are wrong, the responsibility ends up with you or me as to whether we accept the gift of salvation...

Sure. Saying yes is not enough. It is essential, but not enough. How many who cry Lord, Lord, will not be saved?

This has got to be you guy's favorite verse to justify your religion...Do you even understand the verse???

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Not THAT is the will of the Father that is referred to in your proof verse of Mat. 7:21...

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

But who are those that THINK they are doing the will of the Father???

But who are the people that the verse is referring to that will get sent into outer darkness???

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Now which group do you identify with and what group do I identify with???

[Iscool]

I would go even beyond that and simply attribute it to the emotional need for surety. If you walk up to somebody and say: believe in me and you will go to Heaven, and walk up to somebody else and say: believe in me and imitate me and when you go to Heaven, you will be Judged upon that imitation and your eternal Judgement will be based upon that imitation, who might you be convincing more easily?

Problem is, your version is unbiblical for Christians...Mat. 7:21 and following...

[OLD REGGIE]

Martin Luther died fat and wealthy leading a public life. If the Church or any other elements wanted his life, he was a very easy target. Let's not waffle about loss of secular power. The fact is that neither the Church nor anyone desired enough to assassinate him to make it happen. And assassination was just as big in those days as it is in ours - possibly more so.

This is a repeated claim of yours. Also, you have provided no proof whatsoever. It's about time you did so don't you think?

Fact: Martin Luther had powerful protectors. Without those protectors it is likely he'd have been burned and his bones hung on the door at Wittenburg.

As it was, the RCC had no wish to engage in a Civil War which they'd surely lose.

Fact: Martin Luther left no wealth upon his death.

I seldom use Wikipedia as a source but perhaps you can explain the financial circumstances of Martin Luther's widow.

When Martin Luther died in 1546, Katharina was left in difficult financial straits without Luther's salary as professor and pastor . She was asked to move out of the old abbey and into much more modest quarters with the children who remained at home, but she initially refused. Almost immediately thereafter, Katharina had to leave the Black Cloister on her own at the outbreak of the Schmalkaldic War , from which she fled to Magdeburg . After her return the approach of the war forced another flight in 1547, this time to Braunschweig . In July of that year, at the close of the war, she was at last able to return to Wittenberg. The buildings and lands of the monastery had been torn apart and laid waste. Economically, they could not remain there. Katharina was able to support herself thanks to the generosity of John Frederick I, Elector of Saxony and the princes of Anhalt.

Wealth of Martin Luther

Fact: The "Counter Reformation Pope" Paul III was wealthy and, naturally, corrupt.

Pope Paul III

Kinda chubby too.

Catholic Encyclopedia - Pope Paul III

Incidentally the "son" Pier Luigi mentioned in the article was his eligitimate son.

[marbren]

There's not too many things required to become a Christian... One is to realize that you are lost and are in need of a Savior, and there's nothing you can do to save yourself...IF you don't know you need a Savior, there's nothing to be saved from, or to...

GOOD ANSWER Iscool! Being poor in Spirit a beggar for grace in NEED of Savior. The key is the relationship with Jesus Christ our Lord not the religion, And I also agree you will find wheat and weeds in every Christian congregation.

[Mad Dawg]

You know, one problem with that quote is that it assumes that all good works fall under "works of the Law."

Also, I say again, there is the problem posed by the possibility of a person who thinks he is saved and is mistaken.

[Iscool]

You mean to tell me that you didn't understand a word of what I said???

You mean to tell me you always answer a question with a question???

[Mad Dawg]

but you do have to get WET...

The important word is "ordinarily." One can be saved without getting wet.

[Mad Dawg]

You mean to tell me you always answer a question with a question???

What kind of question is THAT?

LOL!

[Iscool]

Here's a little test for you then. Where in the Bible is the gospel plainly stated?

Which Gospel???

This one???

1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
1Co 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
1Co 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1Co 15:7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
1Co 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

Or this one???

Act 20:24 But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Or another gospel???

[Iscool]

lol...

[Quix]

Participation in the life of the Church should lead any Catholic (Charismatic, traditional, or ordinary) into a deeper relationship with the Eucharist, the Blessed Mother and the Pope.

THERE WE HAVE IT, Ladies and Gentlemen, Boys and Girls, Dogs and Cats!

RNMomOf7
Sometimes they forget and say what they really believe

INDEED. The rest of the time, they JUST DEMONSTRATE IT ABUNDANTLY AND VIVIDLY WHILE DENYING IT with a clown straight face.

[OLD REGGIE]

The sons and daughters of Mary would be a whole other thread exposing the anochronistic interpretation by the RCC. Maybe another time.

You mean that Mary went back in time and had other children?

You seem to have a penchant for getting things backwards.

After the birth of Jesus Mary "knew" Joseph and they had 4 sons and several daughters.

Matthew 13:
[55] Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?
[56] And are not all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all this?"

That's the secret (to you) message in

Matthew 1:25 but knew her not until she had borne a son; and he called his name Jesus.