Posted on 07/13/2010 10:43:45 AM PDT by Colofornian
MONTREAL — The “handful” of Mormons who continue to baptize Jews posthumously are violating church policy, says a senior member of the Utah-based religious movement.
Rabbi Schachar Orenstein, centre, spoke at a Mormon temple along with Mormon leader Mark Paredes of Los Angeles, left. At right is George Eric Jarvis, president of the Mormon church’s Mount Royal Stake, or Montreal branch.
Mark Paredes, who sits on the Mormons’ High Council in Santa Monica, Calif., and speaks for the church on Mormon-Jewish relations, was guest speaker along with Rabbi Schachar Orenstein of the Spanish and Portuguese Synagogue at what is described as the first ever formal dialogue between Quebec Jewish Congress (QJC) and the Mormon church in this province. The June 27 event was held before close to 400 people at the Mormon temple in Notre-Dame-de-Grâce.
There are about 9,000 Mormons in Quebec.
Paredes said there is “99.99 per cent” compliance today with the 1995 memorandum of understanding that was signed between the Mormons, formally the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and Jewish leaders.
A few years earlier, it had come to light that some Mormons – Paredes says it was only eight – had submitted the names of tens of thousands of Jewish Holocaust victims for what Mormons call “proxy immersions” for the dead.
The former U.S. foreign service officer made the comments as part of his lengthy address on Mormons’ strong support for Judaism and Israel, titled “The Common Threads of Judaism and Mormonism, or Mormons and Jews in the Last Days: A Zion Relationship.”
Paredes, who until recently was the executive director of the Zionist Organization of America’s western region, said, “No one thinks that more than a handful of Mormons, out of nearly 14 million [worldwide] continue to defy the church’s policy [on proxy immersions].”
The only instance where the church sanctions such activity is if a Jew was an ancestor of a Mormon, he added. Paredes explained that Mormons are required to research their own ancestors and, if they had not accepted the Mormon faith, perform “temple ordinances” for them that will allow them to do so in the after-life. However, these ordinances do not confer church membership, he said.
They were never permitted to do this for anyone else’s ancestors, he stressed.
However, Paredes continued, it is “highly inaccurate to refer to proxy immersions as ‘posthumous conversions,’ ‘making Mormons of the dead, etc.’”
“Mormons agree with Jews that Holocaust victims should not have temple ordinances performed for them, except in rare cases where a victim is the direct ancestor of a living Mormon,” he said. “Jews who are concerned about this issue are entitled to an explanation and, having visited Auschwitz last fall, I am very much of this opinion, and we do our best to provide one.”
Paredes, who was also the American Jewish Congress’s national director of Hispanic community outreach and a press attaché at the Israeli consulate in Los Angeles, said he doesn’t believe that the strong historic ties between Mormons and Jews has been harmed by this issue.
He also reassured Jews that the Mormons are not seeking to convert Jews. Although proselytizing is a central aspect of the religion and all young men serve as missionaries, they are not targeting Jews, or members of other religions, for conversion, he said. “If our missionaries knock on a Jew’s door, they’ll also knock on the doors of his Catholic neighbour, Baptist friend and atheist cousin.”
Rabbi Orenstein also spoke on the commonality of the two religions, although he admitted his knowledge of Mormonism was not as great as Paredes’ of Judaism.
Paredes distanced Mormonism from Christian anti-Jewish beliefs.
“I am proud to state that our church has no history of anti-Semitism. In fact, we have a history of being pro-Semitic, philo-Semitic, of actively helping, not just tolerating, Jews in our midst.”
Mormons believe they are members of the House of Israel, feel a strong affinity with the Jewish people, and their theology and ritual have parallels with ancient Judaism. “Latter-day Saints are modern-day Israelites who build temples, have the priesthood, and receive revelation from prophets,” he said.
Mormons, like Jews, have known persecution throughout their history, since being founded in the United States in 1830, he went on.
The church is Zionist and has called for the gathering of the Jews in Palestine with their own political state since its founding.
In Los Angeles, Mormon-Jewish relations are especially strong, he said. Paredes recently took five rabbis to Utah and, for the past three years a Mormon has hosted the annual Israel Festival, for example.
Paredes’ employment in the Jewish community or Israeli-based organizations is not that unusual for Mormons in Los Angeles, home to 600,000 Jews. They work or have worked at the Jewish Federation, Magen David Adom, several synagogues and an Orthodox day school, he said.
Rabbi Orenstein touched on Mormons’ and Jews’ shared texts and vocabulary.
“We both speak of prophets and redemption and revelation. The definitions may vary, but it is a frame of reference for engagement,” he said.
Abby Shawn, chair of QJC’s human rights committee, said the meeting was at the initiative of the Mormon community and she welcomed the overture. “It went really, really well. They were receptive, inquisitive and highly sensitized,” she said. The Mormons arranged to have kosher food served afterward.
Shawn and Rabbi Orenstein appreciated Parades’s candour in addressing the baptism and missionizing issues.
“I see this as the first step to building a bridge. I hope there will be a follow-up in the future,” Shawn said.
Probably true but they heard the letter in the church, probably house church? So maybe they were seekers?
Don’t worry Tennessee Nana I am not a Mormon.
You were speaking of once a year water baptism...
At the Church I go to we have a water baptism about once a month..
What Church do you go to yourself ???
What do they do at your Church ???
Sigh - marbren these individuals were not part of the church. They would not have heard the letter in the meeting. There is absolutely no evidence they were even seekers. As I pointed out at first, Paul in his letters relates to situations that BEIEVERS would be familar with to make his points. In this instance it would be the practice BY OTHERS NOT IN THE CHURCH of this practice.
Who here suggested you were ???
You had mentioned “marginal Christians”
and the subject matter is about the mormons and their unBiblical dead dunking..
They are they only ones I know who attempt to convince unaware lurkers that they are at least “marginal Christians”
I was merely pointing out that people who dead dunked were not “marginal Christians”
nor are they Christians at all...
Strange that you should jump to your own defense when no attack was forth coming...
OK OK I give up. You win. The “we” “they” concept speaks highly of christian unity. No TN, I am not trying to start once a year baptism. Also, I will not get into a dunking sprinkling argument.
So why the ambigious push to infer Christians were doing this 'baptism'? "WE" speaks to the believers - "THEY" speaks to non-believers. What 'unity' is there between the two? You've got me confused seven ways to sunday.
And I am not “worried” if you are...
You have been cordial and communicative so far...
and you havent threatened anyones Christianity by anything you have said...
I’m just hanging out waiting until its time to go to my grands birthday party later when her Dad gets home from work...
I’ve been promised 100s of sugary calories...
:)
Jesus is coming soon!
No TN, I am not trying to start once a year baptism.
___________________________________________________
There ya go again...
Nobody here said you were...
Zilla you and me both...
Nobody here said He wasnt...
Paul would use “we” to speak of members in the body of Christ and “they” to outsiders. This is new to me today.
OK, glad I was able to provide some insight then. It is ok to learn something new each day ;)
I do not believe it is relevant whether he was speaking of future Christians, non-Christians or newly born Christians in reference to the practice because Paul is known to use existing non-Christian traditions, practices or beliefs to make his point:
I'm just a harmless fuzzball. I would say that an annual baptism is not a critical point of doctrine. What IS important is that baptism is a point where the believer makes a formal declaration of his belief in Christ to the world. IMHO, it is not essential to salvation, but done as an expression of love for the Savior. So whether it is annual, monthly, weekly or daily - what matters is that it is an expression of the believer's faith in the complete grace of Christ for our salvation.
THX1138
Oh I'm sure they're yours. They've kinda gone from white to a brownish tint now. Thanx for asking.
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