Posted on 07/05/2010 6:39:06 AM PDT by GiovannaNicoletta
More and more as we get closer to the end, people want to see a time line of coming events. Questions about the order in which events will take place, the span of time between them and the likelihood of there being enough time for everything to happen in the time we have left are becoming more numerous with each passing week.
As you know the Bible doesnt provide this level of specificity. But neither are we left to make unfounded predictions. There are a number of clues scattered throughout the New Testament that take much of the guess work out of things. With diligent study, we can put them together and make some pretty reasonable assumptions.
Romans 11:25
For example Romans 11:25 says Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of Gentiles has come in. Ive shown several times how the phrases full number and come in point to the Rapture of the Church. In Pauls day they were often used in a nautical context. The full number was the number of crew members a ship needed before it was authorized to set sail. As soon as the full number of crewmen had been contracted the ship immediately left the harbor to begin its journey.
The phrase come in means to arrive at the ships scheduled destination. Its still in use today. People talk about how different life will be for them when their ship comes in.
From Romans 11:25 we get the notion that the Church has a full number, too. Thats the number of believers necessary for the rapture. Reaching that number frees us from the constraints of this world and well immediately come in to our scheduled destination, Heaven.
Jesus told the disciples He was going to His fathers house to prepare a place for us, and then Hed come back for us to take us there (John 14:2-3). He didnt say Hed come back here where we are to be with us here, as in the 2nd Coming. He said Hed come back to take us there to be with Him where He is. This has to be a reference to the Rapture. Once Hes done that, Israels time of hardening will come to an end and the time of their reconciliation will begin.
Isaiah 17, Psalm 83, And Ezekiel 38-39
Ezekiel said that one outcome of the battle he described in chapters 38-39 is that Israel will be awakened to His presence (Ezekiel 39:22). Since Paul said Israels awakening will follow the rapture and Ezekiel said it will be an outcome of his battle, we can assume the rapture will likely precede Ezekiel 38.
None of Israels current next door neighbors are mentioned by Ezekiel, even though theyre all antagonists, but the prophecies of Isaiah 17 and Psalm 83 feature them prominently. From this we can conclude these prophecies will be fulfilled ahead of Ezekiel 38 but theres no way to tell if they will also take place before the rapture.
Acts 15:13-18
A set of parallel clues can bring us to the same conclusion about the relationship between Ezekiel 38 and the rapture. In Acts 15:13-18 James said that Israel was being set aside so the Lord could take out of the Gentiles a people for himself, after which Davids fallen Tabernacle would be rebuilt. The phrase take out comes from a Greek word that means to take hold of something for the purpose of carrying it away. It refers to the rapture of the Church.
Davids fallen Tabernacle is the Temple which was destroyed in 70 AD and will be restored. But there wont be any need for a Temple until Israel is back in an Old Covenant relationship with God. And this will only happen after the Battle of Ezekiel 38. Being back in an Old Covenant relationship means Daniels 70th Week will have begun (Daniel 9:27). That means the Age of Grace will have come to an end and the Church will be gone.
Matt. 24:34, Psalm 90:10 and Isaiah 23:15
Based on these verses I believe Jesus said His 2nd Coming would take place about 70 years from the time Israel became a nation again in 1948. (As I demonstrated in Why The Re-Birth Of Israel Is A Sign Of The End, it doesnt make sense to tie Matt. 24:34 to signs that happen just a few years before the 2nd coming.) Adding 70 years to 1948 brings us to the end of 2018. When Daniels 70th Week begins, there will only be seven years left until the 2nd coming. That means Daniels 70th Week will have to begin 7 years prior to 2018, in 2011.
Other clues indicate the 2nd Coming will likely happen on Rosh Hashanna, also known as the Feast of Trumpets and the Jewish New Year. Because it takes place at the time of the new moon rather than on a full moon, its often difficult to determine the exact time of its arrival. For this reason it was sometimes referred to in the past as the feast where no man knows the day or hour. Jesus used a form of this phrase 4 times in the span of 23 verses while referring to the time of the 2nd Coming (Matt. 24:42, 44, 50, Matt 25:13).
Computer projections tell us that in 2018 Rosh Hashanna will occur on Sept. 9-10. But it takes a confirmed visual sighting to make it official and Matt. 24:29 says the moon will not give its light following the end of the Great Tribulation, so no one will know the day or hour of His return until they see Him coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. (Matt. 24:30)
Thats All Folks
Thats as much of a hint as to timing the Bibles gives us. But remember Psalm 83, Isaiah 17 and Ezekiel 38 are all called battles, not wars. If Israel acted without restraint Psalm 83 would likely require only a week or so to fulfill. Isaiah 17 involves only the firing of a missile or the dropping of a bomb. The Rapture of the Church will happen in the twinkling of an eye. God could annihilate the forces of Ezekiel 38 in an afternoon. My point is, this is not too much for Him to accomplish in the time thats left.
The way the Middle East keeps heating up its possible the fulfillment of Psalm 83 and Isaiah 17 could happen very soon. When the Gaza Blockade issue threatened to ignite into a full blown confrontation recently, I thought we were seeing its beginning. But sad to say its not if these two prophecies will be fulfilled but when. And from Scripture you cant tell if theyll happen before or after the Rapture. They could all happen at once.
But after they do, the Battle of Ezekiel 38 will follow, Israels awakening being necessary for Daniels 70th Week to begin. This will bring the anti-Christ to the forefront to confirm the treaty that allows for a Temple to be built. In the middle of the 70th Week hell claim to be God, kicking off the Great Tribulation, after which the Lord will return to establish His Kingdom.
Over the past few weeks weve taken a fresh look at Psalm 83, Isaiah 17, and Ezekiel 38-39. Weve also shown why the re-birth of Israel has to be the premier sign of the End of the Age. Hopefully, this perspective on how all these prophecies are related will provide the overview we need to understand how very close we are to the End of the Age. Even angels have longed to look into these things (1 Peter 1:12) but you and I are blessed to experience them firsthand.
You can almost hear the foot steps of the Messiah
Thanks.
Especially the last 3.5 years of the tribulation...talk about nasty stuff happening!
Matt 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.Sin committed in the heart. This verse suggests that the condition of Adam and Eve may not have changed when they ate the fruit, it was merely manifested by disobedience. They were naked before and they were naked afterward and God would not tell them to eat of the tree of life, ever. They needed to take it freely.
Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.If God would have told Adam to eat of the tree of life, it would have been a law that could have given life, but God did not intend righteousness to be by the law.
All the rules that existed in paradise. The rules were now death, pain in childbearing, hard work in order to survive, banishment from paradise, among others. These new rules did not exist before Adam and Eve's rebellion. The rules definitely changed.
The things that happened are exactly the same as the things that God intended.
God intended for man to fall? God intended for man to sin and rebel against Him and not only become enemies with Him, but suffer pain and death? God created paradise for man to live in but really intended for man to live in an evil, painful world? God created paradise and put man in it , where man had every need met and no worries and no sickness and no death, but God really intended for man to have to live in a world ruled by Satan?
Note that God told Adam that he could eat freely of any of the trees in the garden except one.
Exactly, and man made the choice to disobey God and eat of the tree that was forbidden and that choice brought us to where we are now.
Sin committed in the heart. This verse suggests that the condition of Adam and Eve may not have changed when they ate the fruit, it was merely manifested by disobedience.
Um, that verse was written several thousand years after the fall. There is nothing in Scripture to suggest that Adam and Eve had a sin nature before their rebellion against God.
If God would have told Adam to eat of the tree of life, it would have been a law that could have given life, but God did not intend righteousness to be by the law.
If God did not intend righteousness to be by the law, He never would have given the law. The law exists for the purpose of showing man that we can never measure up to God's standards of righteousness on our own. Of course God intended for righteousness to be by the law. That's why Jesus Christ said that He is the fulfillment of the law.
I believe that birth, death and resurrection are part of Gods original plan. If you look closely, you can see the Bible opens with the analogy in Genesis 1. Creation followed by destruction in verse two, followed by a new creation beginning in verse three.
No, I don't believe that death and resurrection were part of God's original plan. Although He knew that Adam and Eve would do what they did, and had a plan to redeem man, He never intended for man to rebel against Him and bring on himself the horrible consequences of sin.
If God intended for man to suffer the curse that was not put on the earth until after the fall, He would not have created paradise - He would never have given man a choice.
And I don't see Genesis 3 as a "new creation". Genesis 3 details the events that caused the fall.
All the rules that existed in paradise. The rules were now death, pain in childbearing, hard work in order to survive, banishment from paradise, among others. These new rules did not exist before Adam and Eve's rebellion. The rules definitely changed.
The things that happened are exactly the same as the things that God intended.
God intended for man to fall? God intended for man to sin and rebel against Him and not only become enemies with Him, but suffer pain and death? God created paradise for man to live in but really intended for man to live in an evil, painful world? God created paradise and put man in it , where man had every need met and no worries and no sickness and no death, but God really intended for man to have to live in a world ruled by Satan?
Note that God told Adam that he could eat freely of any of the trees in the garden except one.
Exactly, and man made the choice to disobey God and eat of the tree that was forbidden and that choice brought us to where we are now.
Sin committed in the heart. This verse suggests that the condition of Adam and Eve may not have changed when they ate the fruit, it was merely manifested by disobedience.
Um, that verse was written several thousand years after the fall. There is nothing in Scripture to suggest that Adam and Eve had a sin nature before their rebellion against God.
If God would have told Adam to eat of the tree of life, it would have been a law that could have given life, but God did not intend righteousness to be by the law.
If God did not intend righteousness to be by the law, He never would have given the law. The law exists for the purpose of showing man that we can never measure up to God's standards of righteousness on our own. Of course God intended for righteousness to be by the law. That's why Jesus Christ said that He is the fulfillment of the law.
I believe that birth, death and resurrection are part of Gods original plan. If you look closely, you can see the Bible opens with the analogy in Genesis 1. Creation followed by destruction in verse two, followed by a new creation beginning in verse three.
No, I don't believe that death and resurrection were part of God's original plan. Although He knew that Adam and Eve would do what they did, and had a plan to redeem man, He never intended for man to rebel against Him and bring on himself the horrible consequences of sin.
If God intended for man to suffer the curse that was not put on the earth until after the fall, He would not have created paradise - He would never have given man a choice.
And I don't see Genesis 3 as a "new creation". Genesis 3 details the events that caused the fall.
Well, lets see what God said:
12Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned (Romans 5:12)
So God said sin entered the world through one man, Adam, and sin did not exist before that man brought sin into the world.
So we can see that it was never God's intent for the world to be like it is now. God created paradise, put man in the paradise He created, and Adam and Eve brought sin and death into the world.
There is no Scripture to be found anywhere that even hints that God's intent was for the world to be like it is now.
I suspect that if you create someone with free will, it is inevitable the sooner or later sin would come into play.
Not necessarily. God provided man with a way out then, just like He does now. Adam and Eve did not have to disobey God. It was their choice, just like man has free will now and chooses to disobey God, and just like Adam and Eve suffered the consequences for their choices, so does man today suffer the consequences for his choices.
Both Adam and Eve could have called on God to help them with their temptation. They chose not to. It was not inevitable that sin would come into the world.
How would you teach the creature to know good and evil?
Adam and Eve didn't know good and evil before they brought it into their world with their sin and therefore had no need to be taught about it. As for now, we have Scripture to tell us all we need to know about good and evil and how to avoid evil and choose good, and how not to be enslaved to evil.
I would submit that God is not doing this the hard way. Mankind must be taught the enormous consequences of sin. God warned us about it but we would not listen.
I agree that man is being shown the enormous consequences of sin, but God is doing it the hard way. The easy way would be to wipe us all out and start over, but He would still give the new creation of man free will so the cycle would repeat itself.
Righteousness is by faith.
Righteousness before God chose to bring Jesus Christ into the world was attained by following the law and offering sacrifices of animals for sin. Righteousness after the death of Christ is by faith in Christ's sacrifice on the Cross, and Christ is the fulfillment of the law.
Genesis 1:3
There are those, me among them, who would deny that Genesis 1:3 is a re-creation of something that was previously destroyed. Nobody has ever been able to find supporting Scripture for that theory.
bflr
Whose reasoning should we go by? The limited, finite, flawed-by-our-sin-nature human reasoning? Or do we rely on what God has said about something and believe what He tells us?
Human reasoning has given us such gifts as Nazism, Communism, wars, child brides, abortion - we could be here for months discussing the horrors that have resulted from human reasoning. Human reasoning should not even be in the same universe as Scripture when Godly issues are involved.
When did Satan sin? I believe Satan sinned before Adam.
Satan did sin before Adam and Satan but Satan is not a human being and therefore is not the one who brought sin into a paradise that God created for man. Satan tempted Eve, but Satan did not make the choice for Eve. Eve made her own choice and Adam made his.
Satan was the one who dangled the carrot, and Adam and Eve, instead of calling on God for help, chose to sin and disobey an order that they knew God had given them.
Adam and Eve are solely responsible for their sin, not Satan.
Just as we will be held responsible for our choices, Adam and Eve were held responsible for theirs and suffered the consequences of their choices. Satan cannot force anyone to disobey God and sin against Him. There is always a way out.
Ezek 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.Does it appear that Satan sinned without the law? Why does Adam get credit for bringing sin into the world when both Satan and Eve were in the garden and sinned before him?
But again, whose reasoning? Human reasoning? Or do we put our "human reasoning" under the sovereignty of God, His Word, His law and His commandments? Human "reasoning" is tainted by sin. Whose reasoning do we go by?
Timing is important but consider this verse:
Ezek 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee
You're not attempting to equate Satan, a fallen angel, with man, are you? You're not attempting to say that when God addressed Satan in the above verse, that he was including Adam in that, are you?
God said that sin entered the world through one man, not one angel. The fact that Satan rebelled against God and conducted a war against Him in the eons of non-time before earth and man were created has nothing whatsoever to do with Adam and Eve's choice to sin against God.
There is absolutely no supporting Scripture for that bit of human "reasoning".
Does it appear that Satan sinned without the law? Why does Adam get credit for bringing sin into the world when both Satan and Eve were in the garden and sinned before him?
Because this was not about Satan; Satan's fate was already sealed. This was about man, the fact that he was created perfect and sinless, and the fact that God told this man and woman not to disobey Him and they chose to. The fact that Adam had the choice to take the fruit from Eve or not take it and the fact that he disobeyed God by taking it puts him in the same boat as Eve.
If we define sin as the merely the transgression of the law, then we are missing something. What did Satan do?
Was the law in existence when Satan fell? Had the law really been given then and God just lied when He said He gave it to Moses?
Satan lived in the very presence of God and made the choice to attempt to ursurp Him and take His throne. Angels have free will, and Satan used his free will to rebel against his creator. And, like every creature who rebels against God, there are eternal consequences. As there was and still are in the future for Satan.
The law was not a factor in Satan's rebellion and fall because the law was for man. Just as angels are not eligible for salvation through Christ, the law was not given for or to angels.
I hate to be picky but you are not using all the information that we have.
1 Tim 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,Seven
When man's "reasoning" contradicts the Word of God, or opposes God's principles, commandments, and precepts, or is otherwise contrary in any way to what God has written in His Scripture, then man's "reasoning" has failed and has to be rejected for God's reasoning, which He has written out for us in the Bible.
There are similarities as well as differences here and of course the details are profitable for doctrine. The penalty for Satans sin is the same as for Adams sin. Satan is judged with men at the judgment in Revelation 20.
I see no similarities at all. Satan's fate was sealed long before he stepped foot into the Garden to tempt Eve, and the fall was not about Satan but about Adam and Eve and how they freely chose to believe a lie instead of trusting and obeying God.
While the consequences for sin are the same for all beings with a free will and an option to choose to obey God, that does not mean that Satan's role in the fall meant that he sinned first and Adam and Eve are absolved of their choices.
After the act of disobedience by Adam and Eve, Satan went on his merry way. Adam and Eve experienced the punishment for their actions immediately.
I know that. How do you reconcile that with the fact that Satan came into the garden?
I have already reconciled that. Satan came into the Garden to attempt to get man to fall, and he succeeded. Satan came into the Garden to ruin God's perfect creation, to create enmity between God and man, to ruin the relationship that God had with His highest creation, and to cause a curse to be cast on the world.
Like I said, Satan had already chosen his course and was already doomed at that point. His purpose was to destroy God's creation.
I believe you have missed the timing here. I think that Satan was created in the beginning along with the heavens and the Earth. Adam was created later. The war you speak of may explain the desolate condition of the Earth in Genesis 1:2 and Jeremiah 4:23-26
Satans first appearance in the Bible (Genesis 3) shows him already in opposition to God and working to foil His plan. So he had already rebelled against God and had lost his exalted position and had been cast down to earth. He had sinned already and had received part of his punishment. Ezekiel 28:15 says he wasnt created the way he was in the Garden which would indicate his fall took place before the six- day creation account that began in Genesis 1:3. I believe you are correct in believing that something happened in the gap of time between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2 and was perhaps the cause of the Earth becoming formless and void (literally an uninhabitable ruin).
I know you dont like allegories, but try to look at this from a different perspective. Romans 5:14 says that Adam is a figure of Christ. Adam loved Eve and was presented with a choice; he could live without her or die with her.
I believe we can see the hand of God in the details in scripture. The prophetic character is history is by design. When we recognize the design we consider the possibility that thing happened according to God's plan. God doesnt deal in coincidence.
It's not that I don't like allegories; there are many passages in Scripture which are allegorical. However, those allegories stand for something literal, they are not just fun stories to be read like a fairy tale. My problem with allegories is when men take it upon themselves to allegorize the entire Bible, which God never authorized any man to do, and which changes the Bible into meaninglessness and gives man the opportunity to make the Scriptures mean anything man wants it to mean.
No, God doesn't deal in coincidence but neither did God intend for man to sin against Him and bring terrible consequences on himself for doing so.
God had a plan to deal with man's sin, and that plan was the death of Jesus Christ on the cross and His resurrection, but if God had intended for the world to be the way it is now, He never would have given man the choice between God, and life with God, and all the wonderful blessings that result from a relationship with our Creator, or man becoming enemies with God, losing the fellowship with God that God created man to have with Him, suffering the consequences of being in a state of rebellion against God, and spending all eternity separated from God, in a place that God created for Satan and the angels who chose to join with him in his war against God.
The key word here is choice. God created things the way He wanted them to be, and man made the choice to have things the way they are now.
Luke 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?The value of something can be determined by how much someone in willing to pay for it. Adam would not have to spend eternity wondering about the forbidden fruit. He would experience the sorrow and suffering that it would bring. Sometimes I ask myself, what is God thinking? If the cost of what God is doing is so high, the value must also be high.
Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.What is this joy? Do we know enough about God to be able to figure it out?
Interesting thread but it got too combative for me to continue.
Closer to the end of what?
It is the dispensation which began at Pentecost and will end at the Rapture of the Church. It is the time during which God makes Himself available to man for salvation.
Prophecy threads have a habit of getting combative.
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