Mystery of the Trinity

http://www.crossroadsinitiative.com/library_article/937/Mystery_of_the_Trinity.html ^ | June 11, 2006 | by: Dr. Marcellino D'Ambrosio

[Salvation]

Mystery of the Trinity

by: Dr. Marcellino D'Ambrosio

 

 

The Trinity has always been a difficult doctrine to swallow.  First of all, there is this statement from Sunday’s first reading: “The Lord is God in the heavens above and on the earth below, and there is no other.”  This was tough for anyone to accept in the days of the Old Testament when people generally honored sky gods, sun gods, water gods, and specialized gods for about every aspect of human life and every region of human habitation.  C’mon, there’s only one God?

We might smirk at the ancients, but we have a very similar problem today.  It flows from a philosophy called relativism, but winds up with much the same result.  You might believe in Jesus, I believe in Buddha, and our neighbor reveres Allah.  Your God is true for you, his is for him, mine for me.

 Yet the Bible insists, and the Catholic Church along with it, that there is only one God.  And that God is not an “it”, some impersonal “force”, but a “Him,” more truly personal than any of us.   In fact He is so personal, that from all eternity He is interpersonal–three persons in perfect union of will and activity, so perfect that they are truly One God, not three. Everything in our experience is finite, meaning that it has limits, including the degree of unity that we can have in our relationships.  God’s inner unity, the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, is unlimited and perfect, love pouring itself, one person into another, ceaselessly, at every moment, for ever and ever amen.

 The author of the Da Vinci Code is not the first to allege that the Church made up this whole Trinity thing.  Various sects in the first few centuries plus the Muslims made this accusation.  Then the Jehovah’s Witnesses rehashed it in the 19^th century, blaming the Roman Emperor Constantine.

 Bur really, everything but the term “Trinity” is right there in the Scriptures.  In Sunday's reading from Romans 8, Paul speaks of the Father, Christ Jesus, and the Holy Spirit all in the same few verses, distinct and yet one.  In John’s Gospel, Jesus dialogues with his Father in prayer, showing their distinction, yet boldly proclaims “The Father and I are One.”  Jesus, in this Sunday’s Gospel, sends forth the disciples to baptize people in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”  Note he does not say in the “names” but in the “name”, showing the unity of these persons.  And baptizing in this triune name demonstrates their equality as well, for what sense would it make to baptize in the name of three, one of whom is God and the other two of whom are not?

 But this feast of the Most Holy Trinity does not just celebrate the nature, grandeur, and beauty of God.  It also recalls that we have been baptized or plunged into this energizing reality of divine love.  God has drawn us in to share in the dynamism of his own inner life.  He has not called us servants, but friends.  It is not just the Holy Spirit who indwells our souls, but the entire Trinity who has made each of us a dwelling place.  The three divine persons are loving each of us in us and want to love others through us.

 Some charge that we call this doctrine a mystery because we want to cover up how illogical and preposterous it is.  No, it is a mystery because it exceeds our powers of imagination and comprehension.  But shouldn’t we expect the inner nature of God to be greater than our finite minds?  Any reality that our minds can master is by definition inferior to our minds.  The Supreme Being by definition has to be greater than our minds.

 Fabrication?  Impossible.  Human minds cook up things that other human beings are likely to buy.  Three gods?  People could handle that.  How about a hierarchy of one supreme God with two assistant demi-gods?  That would work.  Three equal but distinct persons in one divine being strains the brain too much to have been concocted by a bunch of theologians or politicians.

[xone]

Taking what Jesus said to be the truth, means Paul was speaking of Jesus and that Jesus is identically God Himself.

A-ffirm!

[vigilo]

A mystery is something that is unknown or unexplained. The Trinity is not a mystery. A “wonder”, perhaps. But not a mystery.

[thecodont]

Taking what Jesus said to be the truth, means Paul was speaking of Jesus and that Jesus is identically God Himself.

That's right!

[xone]

In Genesis, when God cast Adam and Eve from the Garden or questioned them about why they hid and delivered His judgement on them, it would seem He would do it face to face.

[morkfork]

Christodelphians have issues with the Trinity. So does Church of God Abrahamic Faith.

Study to show thyself approved. :)

[morkfork]

But does the “I am” comment refer to him being God or just a part of God’s plan??

Now God is defined in the OT as the Great I Am. So is it “
Before Abraham was born, God.

Something to ponder....

[morkfork]

But when you see me, you see my father. His influence, his personality, his ways...... Did Jesus mean this literally or metaphorically???

[spunkets]

"In Genesis, when God cast Adam and Eve from the Garden or questioned them about why they hid and delivered His judgement on them, it would seem He would do it face to face."

I believe Genesis 3 is parable and that every person that lived is in the position of Adam and Eve. Keep in mind that the DOD were not challenged by a cherubim waiving a flaming sword to and fro in Iraq. That's because the Cherubim represents the physics of this world, which prevent men from "living forever" by their own hand.

[spunkets]

"But does the “I am” comment refer to him being God or just a part of God’s plan?? Now God is defined in the OT as the Great I Am."I Am is God's name. It is not a definition of God. In addition to being His name, it also refers to His having existed "before Abraham was born".

"But when you see me, you see my father. His influence, his personality, his ways...... Did Jesus mean this literally or metaphorically???

Literally. Jesus is the person who is God.

[xone]

DOD were not challenged by a cherubim waiving a flaming sword

The Garden was destroyed in the Flood.

[spunkets]

"The Garden was destroyed in the Flood."

The flood is also a parable. Placing an angelic being in charge to guard a magical fruit tree in a place to be destroyed later is an exersize that indicates arbitrary planning, contradictory purpose and limited foresight. Had it rained for 40 days and 40 nights, the average temp of the Earth would have been -40 degrees. Also, Mie scattering, the process that causes the rainbow is a physical process that depends on the fundamental physics of this world and was present from the beginning, ~13.8b yrs. ago.

This thread is about the Trinity. Note that Jesus is the creator and ponder the following scripture which indicates that everything God said used parable.

Matt 13:34-35, "Jesus spoke all these things to the crowd in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable. So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet:
"I will open my mouth in parables,
I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world."[Psalm 78:2]"

[xone]

The flood is also a parable.

We'll have to disagree on that.

[spunkets]

"We'll have to disagree on that. "

The disagreement is with science and Matt 13:34,35.

[xone]

The disagreement is with science and Matt 13:34,35.

I don't have a problem disagreeing with 'science'. AGW for example. As for the Matthew verses, Jesus did speak in parables. I believe God's Word in the telling of the creation. I don't see where that was referred to as a parable.

[spunkets]

"As for the Matthew verses, Jesus did speak in parables. I believe God's Word in the telling of the creation. I don't see where that was referred to as a parable."

Jesus is God. The crowds are men that hear the word of God, which, was spoke then written. Matt 34,35 is exclusive, there are no exceptions. With that, the passage is equivalent to:

Matt 13:34-35, "God spoke all these things to men in parables; he did not say anything to them without using a parable. So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet: "I will open my mouth in parables, I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world."[Psalm 78:2]"

"I don't have a problem disagreeing with 'science'. AGW for example."

GW involves exaggerations about temperature and energy changes that are less then 0.3%. Mie scattering is something that is inherent in the physics of this world which contradicts the plain language account given in Gen for the birth and existence of the rainbow. As I said, the average temp of the world must have been -40 at the end of 40 days of rain. There is no way to get around these facts.

[xone]

As the Creator of the world and all its physical laws, of course it is possible to get around those ‘facts’. At any rate, I enjoyed the conversation with you despite our disagreements.

[spunkets]

"As the Creator of the world and all its physical laws, of course it is possible to get around those ‘facts’."

If that's so, then the physics of this world is arbitrary and acts according to statements equivalent to, A ≠ A, and God's own logic fails, by containing contradictions. In particular, Matt 13:34,35 absolutely contradicts plain readings of the Genesis stories of the Garden and the Flood.

[xone]

Does your reason give you insight into the unsearchable counsels of God? Job 38.

[spunkets]

"Does your reason give you insight into the unsearchable counsels of God? Job 38."

Questions are asked in Job 38. They can be and have been answered and are certainly not unsearchable. Reason is what it is, and no limitations placed on reason.

[xone]

They can be and have been answered and are certainly not unsearchable.

I'll assume you refer to some of the questions God asked Job, and not the unknown counsel of God. For man has a hard enough time examining himself than to believe he can comprehend all the workings and thought of the Almighty.

For instance:

4 "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation? Tell me, if you understand. 5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know! Who stretched a measuring line across it? 6 On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone-

Good question here, I know the answer to the first part. I wasn't there and God spoke it into existence. How, no clue nor does any man since none were there at the time either. All we have is God's account through Moses.

Or:

19 "What is the way to the abode of light? And where does darkness reside? 20 Can you take them to their places? Do you know the paths to their dwellings? The third question in this series; can you? No, yet God halted the setting of the sun for the Israelites to do battle. Josh 10:13. Reason has its limits and its place is suppressed when faced by questions only God knows the answer to.

By the way, I found this nugget:

Job 42

1 Then Job replied to the LORD :

2 "I know that you can do all things; no plan of yours can be thwarted.

3 You asked, 'Who is this that obscures my counsel without knowledge?'

Surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know.

4 "You said, 'Listen now, and I will speak; I will question you, and you shall answer me.'

5 My ears had heard of you

but now my eyes have seen you.