Setting the record straight on the 'Hawn's' Mill Massacre

From the article: Jacob Hawn, owner of the Hawn's Mill, was never a Mormon...Baugh also discussed why Jacob and Harriet Hawn were never Mormons. "I like many other historians mainly assumed they were Mormons." But among other proofs, Baugh explained that they arrived earlier to Caldwell County before the Mormons, and no family records report that they were Mormons.

So the mill that was attacked wasn't even a Mormon mill, after all. [Rewrite the history books]

From the article: With 17 Mormons killed and 14 Mormons injured, Baugh explained that the massacre on October 30, 1838 was the "singular most tragic event in terms of loss of life and injury enacted by an anti-Mormon element against the Latter-day Saints in our entire church's history."

Well, I would hope that Baugh presented this history in a more balanced way, and that perhaps the journalist just left it out...but a BYU prof? (I doubt it)

What's NOT mentioned in the article (and may have been left out of this BYU prof's presentation):

12 days before this attack: •On October 18, 1838, Joseph Smith, Hyrum Smith, Lyman Wight, D. W. Patten at the head of 40 men made a descent on Gallatin, the county seat of Daviess, and they burned the only store and stole their goods. Previous to the 25th of October a great part of the Mormons residing in Caldwell County had returned home with their dividend of plunder.

6 days before this attack: • On October 25, 1838, the Battle of Crooked River: Mormon forces attacked (unknowingly?) the Missouri state militia under the command of Samuel Bogart. This incident became one of the principal points of conflicts in 1838 Missouri. The battle resulted in the death of three militia and the LDS leader, David Patten. One of the militia was taken prisoner by the Mormons.

Source: http://www.carm.org/religious-movements/mormonism/are-christians-persecuting-mormons

Good info.

Thanks.

I read an LDS account of this a few years back. It made it sound like nothing preceded Haun's Hill (or Mill).

Nope - just a bunch of MO militia men attacked for the hell of it.

As unfortunate as any battle, war, or attack upon another human being is (we are all made in God's image) those are not the facts.

Haun's Hill (or Mill) took place right after a major battle between Mormon armed troops and MO militia men.

Conflicts between the Mormons and non-Mormons in Carroll County and Daviess County throughout the summer put settlers in the more settled counties of Ray and Clay increasingly on edge. This unease reached a bursting point when Thomas B. Marsh and Orson Hyde of the Mormon Quorum of the Twelve Apostles arrived in Richmond and reported that the Mormons had invaded Daviess County and sacked the county seat of Gallatin. They also charged that a Mormon group known as the Danites planned to burn Richmond and Liberty to the ground. This testimony sent the worried citizens into a near frenzy. Women, children and property were ferried across the Missouri River for protection against an imminent Mormon invasion, and the state militia was put on alert.

________________________________________________________

The Danites were not a rumor, they were terrorists and murderers. And what they were doing was not fiction.

One of the most notorious of these in Mormon history was Orin Porter Rockwell, who was a psychopath.

Look how LDS rewrites of history depict him (Mr. Wonderful) vs. as he actually was (a homicidal maniac who looked like he was demon possessed):

This exactly reminds me of the historical revisionism rewrite of Joseph Smith into a Harlequin Romance novel handsome bodice ripper, rather than a wimpish worm of a swindler (see $3 bill scandal), a serial adulterer/sexual predator, and a world class liar.

Hey, while we are at it, why don't we get into Sand Creek to paint all whites in a negative manner?

Why do you spend so much making judgements against LDS from stuff that happened over a century ago?

Why do you spend so much making judgements against LDS from stuff that happened over a century ago?

Good question!

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/17#17

17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother,
“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”

And, continuing thru the years, the high ranking leaders of that Organization have done the same!

Joseph Smith continues: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith-History 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses, 18:172).

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses, 10:127).

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p.196).

Deseret News

BYU Professor Alexander L. Baugh...

Uh, Elsie, those are dogmatic declarations, and not proclamations on this particular event.

If you disagree with the Mormons dogmatically, that’s one thing. But to hold what happened over a century ago against the modern LDS church would be akin to liberals holding Sand Creek against modern white America (which some do anyway).

Thank you for sharing Elsie it helps proves those statements by the present day behavior of the antis!

Are you sure some of the revision in WIKI is not your handi work?:)

I wonder if the Mormons celebrate the Mountain Meadows Massacre of 1857. About 120 people on a wagon train from Arkansas were killed.

Thanks for posting this info.

Hundreds of LDS and RLDS took the time & their $ to fly this weekend to Independence, MO, where the speaker (Baugh) joined 20 other BYU professors making presentations.

The organizers, presenters, and attendees spend tens of thousands of hours pouring over details of what occurred over a century ago. (Are you going to ask the same Q of them; or am I just “Fair game” for the Q just because I’m not LDS or RLDS?)

Thank you for this post. Well done.

Why do you spend so much making judgements against LDS from stuff that happened over a century ago?

Elsie responded with a citation that included this line from the "first vision" of Joseph Smith: ALL their creeds were an abomination in his sight...

This is a line from Mormon "scripture" -- a "judgment" vs. Christendom. It applies to "stuff that happened over a century ago" -- about 17 centuries to more precise. This wasn't just Smith's opinion; a later generation of Lds (over a century ago) enshrined this as "Scripture."

And contemporary refuse to address what these 1870s Mormons did in labeling the rest of us as heart-drifting, corrupt, creedally abominable people. They not only refuse to address it, but they keep spreading the slander. Worldwide. Hundreds of languages; hundreds of people groups. Electronically. By curricula. By media. By missionary.

Uh, Elsie, those are dogmatic declarations, and not proclamations...

Anybody want to inform Dirtboy of the Mormon difference between a "dogmatic declaration" and a "proclamation"...

History-wise, an Lds "prophet" proclaimed polygamy as being on the "out"...and it started to be, and then became a dogmatic declaration. An Lds "prophet" also proclaimed black priesthood holders to be allowed...it was, and was instantly a dogmatic declaration.

(Other than that, not sure what your point is)

If you disagree with the Mormons dogmatically, that’s one thing. But to hold what happened over a century ago...

Dirtboy, God holds us accountable for what happens in the 1900s and the 2000s even for eternity, if Christ's blood doesn't cover it over. Actions and non-actions have consequences. Somebody's sin can lead to another's demise, physically and spiritually.

Dirtboy, God holds us accountable for what happens in the 1900s and the 2000s even for eternity,

So, am I accountable for what whites did to Indians at Sand Creek in the 1800s? Are you? Or are only Mormons on the hook for what their distant ancestors did?

If you disagree with the Mormons dogmatically, that’s one thing. But to hold what happened over a century ago against the modern LDS church would be akin to liberals holding Sand Creek against modern white America (which some do anyway).

The original thread article is new information on the subject taken from the Deseret News, the mormon-owned newspaper.

FR history has the mormons citing Haun's Mill as one of the primary "proofs" of their century old claim of "persecution", often in defense of reports of the Mountain Meadows Massacre.

Additionally, the ongoing discussion on mormon doctrine requires the posting of "century old" events and information since they are the history of the sect and there is such a wealth of material available.

Those FReepers who don't frequent these discussion threads often pick up on a single item to criticize without being aware of this.

So, am I accountable for what whites did to Indians at Sand Creek in the 1800s? Are you? Or are only Mormons on the hook for what their distant ancestors did?

If there were unknown people involved in that massacre, and you had journal entries implicating them tucked away in a massive vault in the Wasatch mountains, and you could focus on the guilt on the specific people involved, but instead chose to continue the cover-up, then you're more a part of the original problem than any redemptive solution.

Are you sure some of the revision in WIKI is not your handi work?:)

I have never, ever edited anything there.

Speaking of "revision", here is something you should read restornu.

If the Book of Mormon is true, then why has the Mormon church changed it? Jerald and Sandra Tanner have counted 3913 changes in the Book of Mormon, excluding punctuation changes.

Interesting.

Three of the changes that caught my eye for the first time is how Mormon leaders have changed Mormon "scripture" -- Mormon 6:15 and Moroni 9:24, for example -- to "send a message" to grassroots Mormons that they better "toe the official line."

Look, based upon your list, how they have changed the concept of "dissent" -- the word Joseph Smith used three times in those two verses -- to "desert".

Dissenters in the Mormon church have been lectured to from on high by the Lds hierarchy -- all I'm sure with nary a press release as to why they made the change, or how it's possible for them to "play surgeons" with past "revelations" from God. (I mean what? God needs a slash-and-cut editor?)

"Dissenters," per Mormonism's leaders, have been labeled as deserters...effectively apostates.

The Mormon general authority hierarchy needs to be exposed for the dictators they are. Yet, the Lds grassroots cowtail it in cowardly fashion, and are afraid to speak out.