Once saved always saved... (aka OSAS) the Religion of the anit LDS)

If you ever wondered what doctrine is right between osas and no-osas, then you have come to the right place. Don't think that because I will be supporting no-osas, that I will have a bias opinion. For I have been on both sides. I was born and raised a baptist. Grew up being taught osas. I never felt bad about it until one day my preacher preached on this subject, and what he said made me realize that this cannot be right. His sermon was based on never losing salvation. But he took it to an area of sin I knew was wrong. He made salvation sound like a ticket to sin.

Now this in itself did not convince me it was wrong. But it planted a seed for me to research it, and I have. A lot of my research involved debating this issue on forums with both osas and no-osas believers. At one point, which was the most confusing point of my life, I was about 50/50 on what to believe. After being frustrated for a while, I decided to go to the source and quit relying so much on doctrine, and what people are saying. Why? Man can take you only so far as truth is concerned. Only God can lead you the rest of the way to find absolute truth.

So I prayed and asked for wisdom about this. My journey was long with many events that were placed there to teach me how and why everything worked out the way that it did. For I can only pray and hope that what I have learned, I will be able to convey to an understanding of most who read this. Why is this so important to me? Because in my journey to learn the wisdom about this, I have also learned that this doctrine alone is destroying the faith of every Christian in such a slow death, most can't even detect it. You might be shocked to read that, because you may be one who believes this doctrine. But don't turn away just yet. For if I cannot convince you to read the rest of this section after reading the first page, then I have failed. So just bare with me while I try and make a point on why I believe this is destroying the Christian faith.

1) Why should I ask forgiveness? 2) Why should I repent? 3) Why should I do any works for the kingdom of God?

For if you cannot lose salvation, then none of the above even applies. Why would God tell us to do something but then turn around and make it sound like none of it has to be done? It's like saying: You can drive the car all you want, but never put gas in it. Why? Because it's not needed. So why fear God enough to do what He has told us if we are not even going to be judged, or punished for not doing it. Does God speak worthless words? Is God's book a worthless book? If osas is believed, then 90% of God's word would have to be omitted to make it work. Because all punishment for sin has to be omitted.

In the osas belief, I have debated many. I have found that the ones who take it seriously also will tell you that the ten commandments no longer apply. Why? One verse says that we are no longer saved by the law, which is correct. But being saved by the law, and having to obey the law, are two separate subjects. So does the word of God actually make a mention that the ten commandments are no longer in affect as to following them?

There are many doctrines that teach the love of Christ only. Such as some that teach there is no hell. Could osas be a modified version of one of these doctrines? Think about it for a second. Step back from what you believe and just look at the facts....

Osas says you cannot lose salvation. Salvation with no conditions. The love doctrines claim there is no hell. Salvation with no conditions. So both determine no hell.

So what makes these two different but yet the same? The love doctrine applies to all. Saved or unsaved. It asks the question: Why would a loving God send His children to hell, or the lake of fire? Sounds like a tempting doctrine to look into don't it? But that's how the Devil hooks you and reels you in. Temptation. How? If you could live the life you want, and still end up in heaven. Which life would you prefer? The life that says we have to obey all these laws about sin, or the one where you can do anything? The anything life always appeals to the flesh, and we are flesh...... So for me to even say that I would not want this would be a lie.

The osas doctrine does the same thing. But it only applies to one group. Get saved and be secure. Never lose salvation. Do you see how the temptation is there? Sin all you want, your secure, you can never fall out of His hands etc....

A doctrine that makes something more appealing to the flesh is what? A temptation.

Does The word of God appeal to the flesh, or the spirit? The spirit. Because heaven is the goal of every person that accepts Christ.

The Osas doctrine makes salvation more appealing to the flesh. How? If there is no punishment for sin, then what wins in the end? Is it the temptation to sin, or feeling you need to repent of the sin? Christ did not die on the cross for a covenant that is more appealing to our fleshly temptation, then our Godly need to abstain, and repent of them.

But, osas also has it's own judgement rules. If someone in their group should actually deny Christ, and decide to live a sinners life. How do they answer this? Well, he or she was never truly saved if they did this.... Really? At what point do we gain enough wisdom to make the same judgements as God? To be able to say, with authority, that this person was not truly saved, is to have a God complex. There is only one being able to determine this, and it is not us.

So what does that statement, so often used by osas, reveal? That it is by man's own choice to not lose salvation that we become secure in it. And because we think and believe this, what we believe makes us judge others as if we were God ourselves. Because security of salvation is our choice, so the judgement of that security in others becomes our choice as well. Osas is setting the rules for salvation for themselves, so why not set it for others as well.

You were not truly saved because you strayed, rejected and denied Christ? If we were not able to sin upon being saved, then this would be true. But I see it no where written in God's word where it says that we can never reject Christ. Sounds like a God complex to me. Because if you can make that type of judgement on earth, then who will be on the throne when we get to heaven? This type of judgement of another brings God down to the level of man. And therefore God would not be worthy to set upon the throne if man has the same ability to judge as He does. To be able to judge another as if we were Gods, also brings pride. And where pride is, becoming humble is much harder to do.

What they are refering to is often called “once saved always saved”. The idea behind that is once you are born again, spiritually reborn, any sin you commit is forgiven by the Blood of Christ, by grace. You do not have to ‘work it off’ or you do not ‘lose your salvation’.

Even if you ‘backslide’ (say fornication for example), it doesn’t mean you lose your salvation, but it also does not mean you are walking with the Lord (showing proper love and respect for Him and His sacrifice) and it does not mean that you do not need to repent from your sin. Grace does not give you a license to sin. To say that it does, spits on Christ.

There is some debate about those who completely turn their back on God and Christ and deny Him after truly being born again. While this is rare, it does happen. More often, however, true believers may remain backslidden for a long period of time and still not lose their salvation. Some were never really Born Again to begin with, God knows who they are. But just because you sin doesn’t automatically mean that you were never born again. We ALL WILL SIN CONSTANTLY, it is human nature.

However, IMO - and there is some scriptural evidence for it - we can blaspehme the Holy Ghost and possibly lose our salvation. But this is VERY VERY VERY hard to do to the point most Christians do not worry about it, I have no fear of it. Christ has changed my heart, my soul, washed me clean in ways I cannot express and I could no more deny Him than I could deny the Sun in the sky.

But for the vast, vast majority of Christians, we see that we are secure in Christ, that no outside forces or sin can separate us from Christ or His love. Nothing we really do, will make Him no longer love us, or make us no longer His children. Once adopted always adopted.

God knows how and when we are going to sin long before we were ever born. And Christ died for us anyway, knowing and paying for our sins on the Cross.

True born again Christians have a deep love and gratitude for the Sacrifice for all our sins and do not wish to grieve him. We know when we sin we grieve him. We are not ‘earning’ contributing or anything else to our salvation, “it is finished”, salvation is here and it is free.

What we are doing is growing in our love and walk with Christ, WE don’t do anything, He does it all. “Once saved, always saved” is a great security for believers because we know we WILL sin (whether we want to or not - we will) but we will not be condemned or lose our salvation for sinning against God. When God looks at us He sees the righteousness of Christ, not our sins OR ‘good works’. He only sees if we are covered in the Blood of Christ shed on the Cross.

God invites us to His mansion, rent free, debt free and gives us riches beyond belief and heals us. All we have to do is trust Him. Would you spit on your host? Would you trash his stuff? No, you would be grateful and thankful even though it will not change your situation or position or get you anything more. God will not ‘kick you out’.

The attitude that the OSAS express for years on the FR pages reveals who you folks are and how lax many are towards the commandments of the Lord so much that many have express why try

after reading many of the post on RF the attitude seem pretty much the same as this author express

“For if you cannot lose salvation, then none of the above even applies. Why would God tell us to do something but then turn around and make it sound like none of it has to be done?

It’s like saying: You can drive the car all you want, but never put gas in it. Why?

Because it’s not needed.

So why fear God enough to do what He has told us if we are not even going to be judged, or punished for not doing it.

Does God speak worthless words?

Is God’s book a worthless book?

If osas is believed, then 90% of God’s word would have to be omitted to make it work.

Because all punishment for sin has to be omitted.”

even though the author and I are worlds a part on certain things the concepts he express I too question an am concern when talking to some of you!

Because many of the attitudes of the OSAS crowd is alien to me which when I talked to other Christians we did have many things in common but differed on Free will or Trinity and a few other things but we did not have a total disconnect which this OSAS crowd does!

Now come to find out that the OSAS also has a disconnect with the mainstream churches.

I would say as I understand it the OSAS doctrine has much in common with Telestial Kingdom!

No wonder you guys are upset you want your cake and eat it too!

Now you know how I preceive many of the exchanges with the OSAS folks it is way off the reservation!

Your post is well written, I just might add some scripture -

“Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?” Romans 8:35

“While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those -that thou gavest me I have kept-, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.” John 17:12 (emphasis mine; Jesus keeps us faithful)

The point of once saved always saved is: God is more powerful than your sin and unbelief. He saves you, and He keeps you saved. It does NOT mean that you can pray the Jesus prayer and then go live a life of licentiousness.

If you are living a life of licentiousness, it is evidence that you were never saved to begin with.

“They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.” 1st John 2:19

“I have found that the main thing that keeps me in-line is the fear of God.”

This statement of yours gives me concern. I will say in honesty that the main thing that keeps me in-line is the love of God. I am so grateful for His mercy and salvation.

“For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.” 2 Timothy 1:7

We are at times admonished to fear God; but still more to love God. What is the first and greatest commandment? To love the LORD our God with all our heart.

It is love that was God’s motivation to give His son, love for His people that drove Jesus to the cross; love, not fear.

“We love Him because He first loved us.” 1st John 4:19

What happens to the christian is not what is important here.

It is what happens to those who are still lost that is important.

From God’s perspective, who do you think God considers to be the more righteous according to their own works (good or bad)???... the one who is still lost? or the born again Christian?

As one who believes OSAS, I can tell you that I seriously doubt there is a single born again Christian who ever lived that didn’t ever wrestle with this issue. I say that because as one who firmly does believe OSAS, the fear that I may be wrong about the issue scares the hell out of me, as it should... but no-osas would scare me even more.

Why? because God makes it clear in His word that his standard is perfection... and nobody can be perfect.
Lost sinners understand this... and they see Christians parading themselves around as if they no longer sin, and they see hypocrisy.... and they are right.

From God’s perspective, even the thought or desire of a discretion makes you just as guilty as committing it.

As a born again osas Christian, I can say that I have NEVER met a christian who shares my view on this subject who sees it as a free ride ticket. Such a person in my own opinion must not even know Jesus to be able to spit in His face like that. No... osas Christians carry just as much “Fear of the Lord” as any other Christian... that is unless the Holy Spirit is not in them. (not saved in the first place)

If a born again Christian can lose his/her salvation, then the promise or gift of salvation never existed in the first place. How could it? Is it Christ’s work in us??? or is it Our work for Christ??? You cannot mix the two.

Christ’s work in us is our salvation and His PURCHASE of us. As Christians, we are no longer our own. We belong to Him. We are His possession... and NOBODY steals God’s possessions... even us. Sure we still have free will to sin, but doing so does not help us in our work in Christ which is to spread His message and His love. And when we go as far to “backslide”, well, there’s a penalty to pay... but that penalty has nothing to do with robbing God of His possession.

Go ahead... look through the bible... find for me one circumstance or example where God warns that sin itself will be the cause for eternal damnation. I’m not talking about generalizations... “those who practice”. I’m talking about specific examples where a particular backsliding Christian was told by Jesus or an apostle that their salvation status had been forfeited by their own behavior.

What you will find however, are tons and tons of examples where a particular individual’s sins resulted in illness... or affliction... or even physical death.

If as a Christian you can honestly proclaim that not a single person gets into heaven by his own good works, then how can we say that anyone gets to hell by their own bad ones? Did Jesus pay for the sins of ALL mankind? or just the ones who would seek forgiveness? Is salvation a gift? or is it a contract? Are the people in hell there because they sinned? or because they rejected God?

And, if we can honestly say that holiness living protects us from “backsliding”, and thus saves us from hell, then is this not the same as saying our good works (holiness) gets us to heaven???

Yeah... you had some good questions... very common ones.
There are answers.
But fear will block your understanding of them.

I have learn from a loving God that he knows the place where are now residing it is impossble to perfect but that does not mean we should not strive to do our best.

The Father sent His only begotten Son to pay the ransom so we could return.

When our heart is humble and we repent because we know that God loves us and His Son paid for our debt which enables us to be baptize to wash off the sins and taking sacarmend we renew our covenants to refresh our minds to help us to stay focus on our Savior gift.

The the Lord send the comforter who will when we strive to do His will to strenghten us in our walk.

We will make mistakes or get distracted but in our quite moments the Lord will try to get our attention so we can get back on track.

The voice of the oposition will whisper on our mind that we are not worthy but that is a lie

it is late must get sleep!

I have found that the main thing that keeps me in-line is the fear of God. It keeps what I say and do in check. Problem is, what fear can you have when you cannot lose the ultimate goal as to why anyone would become a Christian?

Oh... so salvation is a goal????

I thought the goal was to win lost souls to Christ and store up our treasures in heaven.

How can we pursue the goal God commissioned us with if we are still trying to win the battle He already won for us on the cross???

There are PLENTY of reasons and things to fear to keep us in line without constantly regurgitating the milk of salvation for others to see as nothing more than a weakness of our own faith. God's blessings can quickly turn to punishment in our lives, and being ready for His return is what we should be focusing on... not our fear of death and hell. Such a harbored fear is nothing less than a badge of defeat in the eyes of the lost... and makes the promise you share with the lost sinner a completely empty one.

>>> The voice of the oposition will whisper on our mind that we are not worthy but that is a lie

If we believe that our salvation status is vulnerable, how are we protected from that lie?

How are WE worthy??? we are not.

It is Christ’s worthiness that saves us... not our own.

It is important for us to understand WHY we should resist sin... and even more important for us to understand that we cannot ever hope to achieve worthiness in God’s sight.

If God came back today, I would have to say that I am not ready... I would be embarrassed... ashamed... Way too much sin in my life for me to face Him right now with any level of confidence or hope that He would say “Well done...”. But I do not question my status or entry in the book of Life, because I know my heart has received Him... and while my share in heaven may be very very small... being with Him is not in question.

Now.. with that said, on the occasions that I do get to share the salvation message with others, I hope that it is this confidence or faith in salvation itself which someone else sees... because I know that it is the fear of the unknown, or what happens after death which is man’s greatest fear of all. The very fear that Christ alone can free them of.... So WHY do we then now wish to carry that fear again in ourselves?

Are we foolish enough to think that those we speak with will not see it?

Again... look at it from God’s perspective...

Do you think God want’s us to portray our changed lives as reason to place faith in Jesus?

Or, do you think God want’s us to identify with those who are lost as people who are just as unworthy as they are, but with faith and confidence in the gift of salvation?

Does the latter sound like a condonement of sin??? let’s hope not... because again... sin in our lives results in separation from God’s fellowship. The more we sin, the farther God seems from us... and this too is something that our audience will detect without a word spoken.

Apart from Him we can do NOTHING!

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