Posted on 05/24/2010 7:40:38 PM PDT by Colofornian
I’m holding in my hand my black hardcover copy of Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R. McConkie, one of Mormonism’s most influential books, an all-time Mormon bestseller, which went out of print this week.
A book written, I’m sure, with the best of intentions by a revered Mormon leader. And, still, a book that continued to circulate even after other high-ranking Mormon leaders recommended more than one thousand corrections to its content.
A book that called Roman Catholicism the “Church of the Devil.” And a book that elevated to doctrinal status non-doctrinal folklore about the origins of the LDS Church’s ban on conveying priesthood authority to members of African descent, claiming that blacks were the descendents of the accursed Cain.
A book that due to its authoritative presentation and doctrinal fundamentalism gave many Mormons reasons for grief.
Mormon Doctrine (1958 – 2010), RIP.
There you go again . . . condemning people to damnation and hell and blaming it on the Savior who gave His life to save us from our sins.
________________________________________________
THats OK
Jesus has broad shoulders...
He doesnt need you to protect Him from “hurt feelings”
He was the one who said it and He is the one who is...
condemning people to damnation and Hell ...
Why is that so hard for you to accept ???
Jesus talked about Hell more than He talked about Heaven...
Hell is a real place...you wouldnt want to go there..
There is only the only level of Heaven and the one level of Hell for humans...
We get to choose where we will spend eternity...
We know before we go where we are bound for...
There’ll be more people in Hell than there will be in Heaven...
Joey Smith will be in Hell along with Hitler..
Hes not waiting at any gate for you with a ticket or back stage pass in his hand...
He wont be anywhere aroujnd Heaven..
He had 38 years to make up his mind and he chose damnation and Hell..
SAfter 38 years of knowing about the real Jesus and choosing to reject Him, Joey Smith died in a shoot out in a hail of bullets and an ignoble lack of glory..
Hes dead and gone forever...no more chances for him..
Once you are dead it is too late...
You have to repent of your sins and get saved while you are still alive...
Jesus warned us and explained fully (as in the MEAT) that we have to chose while we are still alive...
Chose to believe in Him alone and be saved...
reject Him and dont believe and be damned and go to Hell (Mark 16:16)
What is so difficult to understand about that ???
I understood it as a child of eight...
Surely at 60 you have heard enough preachers preach the Gospel of the True and Living Word of Jesus Christ...
Jesus said to Saundra Duffy, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man or woman comes to the Father except by me.” John 14:6
Tou spent years with a Chrsitian group, the YMAM...
Did not a tiny inclination of the truth of Jesus ever rub of on you in all the time you were around those good Chrsitian ministers ???
No hint that you yourself might need a Savior ???
You mean you wasted their time and deceived them into thinking you were in agreement with their religion and beliefs and mission ???
How can you live with yourself knowing you were lying to good Chrsitian folk with a heart for the lost...
I hope you repented and asked their forgiveness...
While you yet have breathe in your body there is still hope that you will finally be saved...
Once you close your eyes in death there is no second chances...
God is Just and Fair...
He givces us all the same playing field and opportunity to play on His team...
Team try outs are in session 24/7 while we are alive on this Earth...
the season is over forever once we die...
God accepts ever player on His team who try out because we all stink when arrive at the ball park...
It takes practice and adhering to God’s omnly play book The Bible to clean up out act and out playing...
But finally we all get to play in the Super Bowl in the sky in Heaven...
There’ll ber lots of VERY LOUD shouts and cheering for our Team Captain the LORD Jesus Christ on that day...
The Lamb of God will give us our team jerseys...white with His red blood stripes...
here I’ve gone and preached myself happy...
Dont it makre ya want to SHOUT ???
Holy is the Lamb of God...
Praise His Holy Name...
His Name Jesus is above all names...
Hallelujah to the King of Kings and the LORD of lords...
Well go ahead and just SHOUT then...
God likes it when we SHOUT and praise the Name of Jesus...
God likes NOISE.... God is not nervous...
The devil would like to shut us up and keep us quiet...but we were born to express ourselves...
We were born to praise the LORD Jesus...
Once we are dead its too late...
Decide to get saved and do it now...
Guess that trip wasn't what it wall quacked up to be.
You can choose Heaven, you can choose hell.
There is nothing that I can do to save you or condemn you.
It is your choice.
Jesus and only Jesus is sufficient.
There is nothing that you can do, you can not add to the sufficiency of Christ.
Sandy, you were a YWAMer long enough, I’d assume, to read those verses just beyond John 3:16, right?
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son…36Whoever believes in the Son HAS eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." (John 3:17-18, 36)
Did you see that phrase ”stands condemned already” in John 3:18?
The “wrath of God” is a rather severe punishment, Colofornian, and should reserved for His judgment - NOT YOURS!
Now tell me you’re different from the other Mormons I’ve encountered – the ones I’ve talked with who assume nobody except some rare apostates are under condemnation. Go, ahead, tell me you’re different than they are. Don’t you understand that according to John 3:18, people who don’t believe in the ”one and ONLY Son” (which excludes those who believe that Jesus is one “elder brother Son among MANY”) ”stand condemned already?” And, of course, that condemnation includes God’s existing wrath remaining on him/her.
(If you don’t like what Jesus said in John 3:18,36 take it up with Jesus!)
No matter what, Sandy, God’s wrath and condemnation is unleashed upon the sin of us all. Either
(a) Jesus’ stint on the cross absorbs it on our behalf; or
(b) For those who want to work their way to high degrees of glory, or slouch their away along – doesn’t matter – the sin will remain in their own lap. What a sorry thought that is as it crosses my mind.
… There you go again . . . condemning people to damnation and hell…
As I said above, I just cited John 3:36. How would that be any different than a Mormon citing Mosiah 2:38-39; 3:19 or Alma 42:16 from the Book of Mormon?
“For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord…” Mosiah 3:19 -- which, BTW, was supposedly written in B.C. 124 … how convenient for such explicit words such as the Greek word, Christ, and the word Tyndale made up late in the 13th century – “atonement” to show up on a gold plate in B.C. 124 before there was a tremendous amount of discussion about “enticings of the Holy Spirit,” “saints,” and “atonement” and “Christ the Lord.”
“Therefore if that man repenteth not, and remaineth and dieth an enemy to God, and the demands of divine justice do awaken his immortal soul to a lively sense of his own guilt, which doth cause him to shrink from the presence of the Lord, and doth fill his breast with guilt and pain, and anguish, which is like an unquenchable fire, whose flame ascendeth up forever and ever. And now I say unto you, that mercy hath no claim on that man; therefore his final doom is to endure a never-ending torment.” (Mosiah 2:38-39, Book of Mormon)
”Now, repentance could not come unto men except there were a punishment, which also was eternal as the life of the soul should be…” (Alma 42:16, Book of Mormon)
Why does G-d allow Mormonism?
So, Christians will know how Jews feel!
Oooh...snap !!! I’m feeling it too ! ... magritte
Bingo, Ejones!
"Latter-day Saints...do believe in the effects of the Fall...that sin entails upon children because of what Adam and Eve did or what the children's parents did-LDS scripture does suggest that children are 'conceived in sin'..." (BYU prof Robert L. Millet, The MormonFaith: Understanding Restored Christianity, p. 33)
Mormon "scripture" actually goes even far than Millet suggests:
“…the fall had brought upon all mankind a spiritual death as well as a temporal, that is, they were cut off from the presence of the Lord…” (Alma 42:9, Book of Mormon)
“For the natural man is an enemy to God, and has been from the fall of Adam, and will be, forever and ever, unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit, and putteth off the natural man and becometh a saint through the atonement of Christ the Lord…” (Mosiah 3:19)
Now a lot of this sounds pretty biblical. So how is this "insulting" and slanderous to Christ?
#1, despite what Millet said above...the elipses I used above included phrases that said, "Latter-day Saints do not believe in the depravity of men and women. They believemen and women have the power to choose good...they do not believe children are 'born in sin.'" (same source)
So, Mormons try to "have it both ways" -- "natural man is an enemy to God" (Mos. 3:19) and spiritually dead (Alma 42:9; Eph. 2:1) and sin's still around inherantly and Romans 6 says men are in bondage to sin...but somehow, despite the bondage, despite the spiritual deadness, despite the enmity to God, men somehow have all this supposed "power" to choose what a holy God considers as "good."
#2, As I read what you wrote, Ejones, the word picture I got in my mind about what is truly "insulting" in Lds teaching is this:
Imagine such a tree disease upon the world that EVERY tree simply fell over. They naturally became "dead." They became "enemies" to life and producing fruit. They were in bondage to a ravaging disease.
But then a pretend "tree healer" comes along. He says the man on the tree who died on the tree came along, and sweat blood for these trees in a garden...and by doing that, EVERY tree is now promised to arise and be saved. As long as they don't become a Redwood, and then try to leave the Redwoods as an "apostate" -- then they'll all be saved.
But when it comes to "tree promises about whether they will rise, Mormons are like Martha who talked with Jesus in John 11:
23Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again." [like the promise of the trees rising again]
24Martha answered, "I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day." [like the Mormon emphasis that the atonement applies to all who will be raised and saved, a form of near-universalism]
25Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; 26and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"
In these last two verses, Jesus is saying to Martha (and by derivation, the Mormons), "you've got it backwards." "You think that it's...
...earthly life,
...death,
...and then a last-day resurrection."
"Actually," Jesus seems to tell Martha...it's...
... earthly spiritual death,
...then it's earthly spiritual life -- 'cause 'I am the resurrection and the life'...
...and BECAUSE you are now alive (through Jesus), you "will NEVER die. Do you believe this?"
The Christian gospel is not simply that ALL the "trees" will arise at the last day. Rather, it's the trees rise NOW...and REMAIN raised in a more substantial way in the last day. But that actually, most of the trees won't be raised at all -- either now or at the last day.
The way Mormon "slander" of Christ comes in is that they basically tell Christ that He was a false prophet when He said: "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it." (Matt. 7:13)
They presume to essentially say to Jesus, "Golly, Gee, Jesus. Didn't Heavenly Father tell you about the telestial and terrestial spheres of salvation? What do you mean 'broad/wide is the road to destruction' and that this road is wider than the narrow way to life and that a lot more seem to be heading for destruction than life?"
Thanks for the reminder.
Wishful thinking. I have a theological point of view.
I’m like Jacob. Protecting the island.
Oops forgot to ping moderator.
Oh and still trying to figure out what
you’re doing other than heckling the opposition.
LOL
KIR
“If you don’t have everlasting/eternal life before you die, you don’t have it, Jesus says. The wrath of God remains on you. “ [colo]
There you go again . . . condemning people to damnation and hell and blaming it on the Savior who gave His life to save us from our sins. [SD]
- - - - -
Um...you don’t know your Bible very well, do you Sandy?
As Elsie posted, the Bible is VERY clear, those who do not trust Jesus ALONE (not a ‘church’) for their salvation, will reap the ‘rewards’ of damnation.
What the LDS FAIL to understand, is God is a HOLY and JUST God, as well as a merciful God. But the LDS only think of Him (them) as merciful, they leave out the Holy and Just parts.
There is no ‘second chance’, there is no ‘universal salvation’, there are no ‘3 levels of Heaven’, there is no earned godhood or exaltation or celestial kingdom - none of those doctrines are Biblical at all.
What there is, is FAITH IN JESUS ALONE or HELL. It is one or the other.
And, no one who is LDS, can claim to put their faith in Jesus alone to get them back into the presence of GOD THE FATHER (Christian Salvation). Why? Because the LDS church teachings say that membership, temple work, tithing, and ‘works’ are required to get to the CK. That means the LDS MUST ALSO put their faith in the Mormon church to save them and THAT is following a false god.
Just as it is either Jesus or Hell, it is either Jesus or Mormonism. There is no other choice.
Please, Sandy, leave the security of your false God and come to the true and living Christ and trust Him ALONE to save you - not membership in a man made organization.
Excellent!
How about a link once in a while?
He is PD, he’s exposing the fallacies of mormonism. How can that be construed as anything but good?
It does not CONTAIN truth; it IS Truth!
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