Posted on 05/14/2010 11:03:45 AM PDT by NYer
When taken to excess, even things that are unarguably good become a problem. Sometimes, things turn into their very own opposites when taken just a little bit too far. An excess of courtesy is discourtesy. Excess of sorrow laughs, excess of joy weeps.
It is the same with excess of caution and piety. When Christians use the "don't judge" scriptures in excess caution or excess piety they are being incautious and impious.
Christians need only consider their responsibilities in rearing their own children in order to understand the balance in judging and correcting error. No Christian parent would willingly ignore sinfulness and misbehavior, nor even ignorance and bad manners in their children. It is worldly foolishness that advises (or even demands) that parents not actively discipline their children for sinfulness and misbehavior. The responsibilities of spiritually mature Christians (elders) within the body of Christ and the pressures of the world in opposition are much the same as with parents.
Having said that, I suggest looking at the following verses while considering the correct balance in discerning and correcting error.
"Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them". (Acts 20:28-30).
I offer these thoughts with respect and good will as between brothers and sisters in Christ.
Jesus knew that the disciples were not morons and would understand that He was speaking symbolically without having to spell it out for them.
Yes but put together like that they make a great impact!
No; it doesn't.
Look back BEFORE this statement and just SEE what the Apostles taught!
That’s what happens when ears won’t hear.
Here he is quoted with the exact (and extended) quote in the book “Thomas Aquinas : His personality and thoughts”.
So why would you ignorantly presume that the quote was in error? Unable to deal with the thought contained within it you reflexively attack the source? Juvenile.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
Quaestiones Disputatae de Potentia in Quaestiones Disputatae. Vol. II. Ed. P. Bazzi et al. (Turin: Marietti, 1965), 6.6. Hereafter cited as De Pot.
The fuller quote given in the book is...
“Nothing may be asserted as true that is opposed to the truth of faith, to revealed dogma. But it is neither permissible to take whatever we hold to be true, and present it as an article of faith. For the truth of our faith becomes a matter of ridicule among the infidel, if any Catholic, not gifted with the necessary scientific learning, presents as a dogma what scientific scrutiny shows to be false”
This is the crux of the intellectual suicide that Creationists commit. They present whatever they hold to be true as an article of faith. Rejecting what they hold to be true, to them, is a rejection of “Biblical authority” when, of course, it is just a rejection of the preposterous things they have unwisely extrapolated from their simplistic view of the meaning of Scripture.
But it is WAY more fun to present those evil, ignorant, superstitious, hag-ridden-by-the-Vatican(how do you type a sneer?) priests of thinking the world was flat and Columbus gonna sail of the edge.
I've always been impressed with Eratosthenes's arithmetic, moiself.
In my Christian walk - including the raising of my daughter and step-children - I have kept the distinction between judging the matter and judging the person.
For instance, I would say to one of the kids "that was a stupid thing to do." I would not say "you are stupid."
Likewise, I discern the fruits of someone speaking about Christ - and his doctrines - but I refrain from judging him personally. Christ's teaching here in the Sermon on the Mount (both from Matthew 7) deals with judgment first and then discernment:
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. - Matthew 7:15-20
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather [suffer yourselves to] be defrauded? Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that [your] brethren. - I Corinthians 6:1-8
And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, [concerning] him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
Your glorying [is] not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened.
For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened [bread] of sincerity and truth. - I Cor 5:1-8
You have to ignore so much of Scripture to believe what you believe.
Paul had a different understanding than yours, and talks about the dangers of not discerning the real presence of Christ in the bread:
“For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus, the same night in which he was betrayed, took bread, And giving thanks, broke and said: Take ye and eat: This is my body, which shall be delivered for you. This do for the commemoration of me. In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood. This do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me. For as often as you shall eat this bread and drink the chalice, you shall show the death of the Lord, until he come. Therefore, whosoever shall eat this bread, or drink the chalice of the Lord unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord. But let a man prove himself: and so let him eat of that bread and drink of the chalice. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord. 1 Cor 11:23-31
How in the world do you eat bread unworthily? Guilty of the body and of the blood of the Lord for not believing it is a symbol? And what part of “not discerning the body of the Lord” is confusing to you?
No. Wait. My bad. I DO read the Bible.
But to get back to the question at hand, what do you think "the breaking of bread" means?
Eratosthenes was BRILLIANT! His calculations for the diameter of the Earth based upon measuring the angle of shadows at different latitudes was absolutely inspired.
Twain said a lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is still lacing up its shoes.
Washington Irving's invention of a 1400’s world where learned scholars thought the world was flat should have run its course by now; and yet it is still subscribed to by many who really should know better.
But evidently the laws of this strange land make it legal to say ridiculously nasty things about groups, just not about indiwiddle posters.
It IS interesting to think about how different groups consider revelation, reason, and faith. But starting out by saying the other side is committing suicide is not the best way to proceed IMHO.
And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus. But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me.
And immediately Jesus stretched forth [his] hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt? – Matt 14:28-31
The prayers of the one who does not believe in miracles will not be answered by reason of his own disbelief.
From our POV ABC involves the use of drugs or devices to impede or stop a healthful and natural process. NFP works with the natural process.
I have a friend who was using (insert menacing music here) "the Pill" and got pregnant anyway BECAUSE she was taking ampicillin. Who knew? Anyway, her husband and she called the fetus "Ampicillin" ("Ampy" for short) for the duration of the pregnancy. Somehow to me this highlights the bizarre nature of using a 'medicine' to prevent a benign natural process.
(But then I think Botox is perverse too.)
That is intellectual suicide. Once you decide that something you believe about Scripture is “God's teachings”, your ‘knowledge’ becomes a dead thing, unable to respond to any reason or contrary data.
I do not pray for miraculous intervention by God. I pray only for the self wisdom to accept what God has in store for me and to accept it with humility and reverence.
If nature is a supernatural event, then the definition of both words become nullified as having no distinction between the two.
I do not presume that God had to create the world via supernatural means. I believe that God is perfectly capable of creating a self sufficient and self contained and self consistent universe - one that can and does unfold according to the physical laws that God created; and all scientific evidence supports this presupposition.
I do not think that stars forming right now off in the universe via the natural processes of gravity and nuclear fusion are any less created by God than our own Sun.
Do you think that if a star forms via nuclear fusion and gravity that it is less created by God than our own Sun? Do you insist that God used supernatural means to create our Sun, rather than relying upon the unfolding of natural laws?
“God’s Name is I AM. “
HIS name is Jesus.
In this case many antibiotics act to induce production of these metabolic enzymes, causing other substances, such as birth control hormones, to be metabolized much fater than expected, reducing their circulating plasma concentrations, and reducing their efficacy.
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