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Posted on 04/18/2010 9:49:35 PM PDT by Judith Anne
I seriously wonder about some FReepers, sometimes. Any other person accused of a crime would be defended by every FReeper as being innocent until proven guilty by a court of law. I've seen whole threads written by men who have been accused of child abuse by ex-wives out to deny them their visitation rights or to wrest more money out of them. These men are rightly indignant, and furious about the unjust accusations that cannot be proven but are never withdrawn.
Yet where are those FReepers when a PRIEST is accused? Where is the presumption of innocence? Suddenly, every accusation becomes a verdict, and not only the accused but his entire organization and all its adherents are held responsible.
I can only wonder what some of these so-called conservatives (who so faithfully defend the Constitution) would do, if THEY were the ones accused! It is a nightmare for any man -- all of you know how even the accusation stains the man forever, even if it is proven false!
Not only that, many here assert that the problems of 30, 40 and even 50 years ago must be tried in the media TODAY!
Remember the Duke rape case? There are more similarities than differences here. The priests are accused, nifonged, and instead of being defended, they are vilified!
What other man of you could stand under the weight of such an accusation trumpeted by the press, and come out whole? None! And such accusations made, LONG after the statute of limitations has passed, sometimes even after the accused is dead and buried for YEARS -- are YOU one of those who automatically, reflexively, spitefully, and gleefully act as judge, jury, and executioner?
Women! What if it were YOUR HUSBAND, YOUR BROTHER, YOUR FATHER, YOUR UNCLE, YOUR SON who was accused? Wouldn't you want the best defense possible? Wouldn't YOU believe in their innocence? Wouldn't YOU help protect your loved ones as much as possible? And yet, YOU JUDGE THE CHURCH FOR DOING WHAT YOU WOULD DO?
Shame! Vast shame! On all who have sinned against the innocent!
How many people in Germany died because of it?
Does your Baptist church have any arrangement that insures that the ENTIRE BIBLE will be read in regular services over a defined length of time? Or does the pastor just decide from week-to-week what portions to read?
Oh, yes, it was so dull! LOL! ;-D
A great many Germans (both Lutheran AND Catholic) died during the Thirty Years War, but it is naive to think that the religious wars were strictly about religion, they were as much about political control and nation-building as anything.
You keep telling yourself that
Are you even vaguely aware of who the Habsburg, Hohenzollern, Bourbon and Medici families were? Because THEY were the ones who started these wars and THEY used religion as a cover to gain political power and, with the exceptions of the Bourbons, they had members who were both Catholic AND Protestant.
Do you think that the “religious wars” not only of the Reformation age but of earlier centuries were NOT about secular issues as well? I’m fascinated.
All anyone has to do is search the Peace of Westphalia and they will see that it had very little to do with religion and very much to do with interrelated royal families dividing power.
Our Pastor will select an area he wishes to explore, it may be one book, or a topic. Our Pastor may give the message on one Sunday, or it could be a series that takes months. Typically, our Pastor will talk for about 45 minutes and the entire service usually runs about an hour and 40 minutes.
Sometimes the service will run longer if Christians are being baptized.
That is true, but among those who make a habit of denying parts of or all of Scripture, including the doctrine of the Rapture, are several Catholics, one of whom is especially arrogant and smug and childish about his unbelief. That is not to tar all Catholics; however there have been a few who have pretty forcefully denied that part of Scripture. Denial of Scripture plays into the adversary's hands and it is offensive to those of us who consider the Bible the inerrant, infallible, God-breathed Words of the living God. And that means each and every word.
We can be brothers and sisters in Christ but there are many Protestants who are going to get quite offended when they see the word of God re-defined, denied, or discarded. And some of them are going to speak up about it.
Whether is is Catholics or Protestants who engage in that behavior, you can always count on some of us speaking up in defense of Holy Scripture.
Extirpating the Lavender Mafia should be among the top priorities.
Oh dear.
I deplore this seeming trend to appeal to being offended as a justification for giving offense, or, indeed for anything.
Let me say “what I heard you say.” If you present a doctrine or notion of which I disapprove I may be offended. And when I am offended I will answer back.
That’s really a caricature of what I “heard.” (And I am open to being informed that I MISheard.
In another forum, I was told that it was offensive for me to argue that calling tea-partiers “tea-baggers” was a very different thing from using the N-word. On yet another forum I was told that my holding that a homosexual orientation was disordered was offensive.
Well, we all tend to be a little troubled when somebody questions some notion dear to us. But I just do not see how being offended gives any a new right or excuses a behavior or makes a point. I am greatly offended by some of the things (and especially by open and seemingly purposeful breaches of logic) I read here. Most of the time I think that’s MY problem. Sometimes and about some posters I think they intend to inflict pain. I think that is almost always sinful.
So I will endeavor not to give offense. But if the mere articulating of views I hold is going to be considered offensive, then I will look elsewhere for conversation.
Have you ever read the paradoxes and problems by the poet John Donne?
I hope you will see the humor in his consideration of why Puritan preachers preach so long. His final conclusion is that they are preaching until everyone wakes up.
Do you really think God has feathers?
Exactly the point we keep trying to make to the Catholics who claim apostolic succession.
Very good, then you support that Church history picks up where Scriptures leave off.
Well after. I do not disparage Paul in the least; but let us look objectively at the roles that the individual Apostles played.
A very strong rebuke. Jesus interacted with Peter almost to the exclusion of the other Apostles, including the Apostles that He loved. He praised, He taught and He rebuked. You bet. And we see in Acts that the teachings of Jesus had acted greatly upon Peter, although being human, he did have to be corrected by Paul once.
We have no evidence that there was a Mrs. Peter during this time, or even that there were Peterlings. I am not aware of any tradition that tells of any of this.
Nope, Scripture indicates that He does not. We are Judged by our deeds, our misdeeds, and our failures to act.
The bottom line in all of this is that Christians shouldn't even begin to have these types of charges brought against them. When they do, other Christians should be critical. If the accused are innocent, God will reward them in due time. If the accused are guilty they need to seriously repent and face the consequences, or be kicked out of the Church.
No question.
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