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Posted on 04/18/2010 9:49:35 PM PDT by Judith Anne
I seriously wonder about some FReepers, sometimes. Any other person accused of a crime would be defended by every FReeper as being innocent until proven guilty by a court of law. I've seen whole threads written by men who have been accused of child abuse by ex-wives out to deny them their visitation rights or to wrest more money out of them. These men are rightly indignant, and furious about the unjust accusations that cannot be proven but are never withdrawn.
Yet where are those FReepers when a PRIEST is accused? Where is the presumption of innocence? Suddenly, every accusation becomes a verdict, and not only the accused but his entire organization and all its adherents are held responsible.
I can only wonder what some of these so-called conservatives (who so faithfully defend the Constitution) would do, if THEY were the ones accused! It is a nightmare for any man -- all of you know how even the accusation stains the man forever, even if it is proven false!
Not only that, many here assert that the problems of 30, 40 and even 50 years ago must be tried in the media TODAY!
Remember the Duke rape case? There are more similarities than differences here. The priests are accused, nifonged, and instead of being defended, they are vilified!
What other man of you could stand under the weight of such an accusation trumpeted by the press, and come out whole? None! And such accusations made, LONG after the statute of limitations has passed, sometimes even after the accused is dead and buried for YEARS -- are YOU one of those who automatically, reflexively, spitefully, and gleefully act as judge, jury, and executioner?
Women! What if it were YOUR HUSBAND, YOUR BROTHER, YOUR FATHER, YOUR UNCLE, YOUR SON who was accused? Wouldn't you want the best defense possible? Wouldn't YOU believe in their innocence? Wouldn't YOU help protect your loved ones as much as possible? And yet, YOU JUDGE THE CHURCH FOR DOING WHAT YOU WOULD DO?
Shame! Vast shame! On all who have sinned against the innocent!
“From the vast majority of responses here on FR to the pederast priest scandal, many many members of that organization do not ‘stand in opposition,’ but deny the error even exists.”
I believe this is a gross exaggeration. A “vast majority” on this forum who have denied that errors exist would have to be precisely proven to make this statement true.
Just for the record, as you well know—we Catholics don’t refer to ourselves as “an organization.”
Would you please point me to any post by Judith Anne where she says what you are defending - that the entire church should not be tarnished for the sins of some of its priests?
Because I haven't read anything like that from Judith Anne. Instead her posts are filled with denials of any wrong-doing by any priest, and accusations of bigotry and hatred against those who ask for Vatican accountability.
What a gross misstatement of the truth. There is not a vast majority, a simple majority, or even a significant minority that deny the errors existed. There has been a denunciation of the disproportionate harang against the abuses of the Catholic clergy. (Unless you are referring to those non-Catholics who completely deny that there were abuses within their denominations.)
Another statement that's a real keeper. Ping for later reference.
Judith, please do not stop. I have a great interest in your views of the Scripture ands what you like, don't like and why.
Peter considered Paul’s writing to be Scripture.
2 Timothy 3:16-17 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
2 Peter 3:15-16
15Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
I can understand your position. How would the fathers of the reformation be able to point the crooked finger and threaten eternal damnation in exchange for obedience with without an apocalyptic book in the NT?
Keeping you busy?
How about:
Gal. 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
My favorite though is John. It didn't occur to me until years after the Lord saved me. John was the bravest of all the Apostles. He went to the cross when all others ran away and could have easily been grabbed and crucified then and there.
Amen.
I was told by Judith not to comment on her interests which she voiced on the open forum. But you are able to comment on them?
lol. Got it.
And thanks for the tip, dear brother in Christ!
Acts 18:5-7 5When Silas and Timothy came from Macedonia, Paul devoted himself exclusively to preaching, testifying to the Jews that Jesus was the Christ. 6But when the Jews opposed Paul and became abusive, he shook out his clothes in protest and said to them, "Your blood be on your own heads! I am clear of my responsibility. From now on I will go to the Gentiles." 7Then Paul left the synagogue and went next door to the house of Titius Justus, a worshiper of God.
Because he did....
Romans 15:15 I have written you quite boldly on some points, as if to remind you of them again, because of the grace God gave me 16to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles with the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.
Paul was apparently called to be an apostle to the Gentiles AFTER his first missionary journey,.
Galatians 2:1 Fourteen years later I went up again to Jerusalem, this time with Barnabas. I took Titus along also. 2I went in response to a revelation and set before them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles.
Galatians 2:7 On the contrary, they saw that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the Gentiles, just as Peter had been to the Jews. 8For God, who was at work in the ministry of Peter as an apostle to the Jews, was also at work in my ministry as an apostle to the Gentiles. 9James, Peter and John, those reputed to be pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the Jews.
Wow. Is this how all Roman Catholics really believe? Has Rome so diminished the word of God in its temples that its members can so blithely erase Paul and John from Christianity?
Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. – John 8:43
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. - I Corinthians 2:14
Exactly the point we keep trying to make to the Catholics who claim apostolic succession.
ROTFL! You just described the sixth session of the Council of Trent!
CANON IX.-If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema.CANON XXIV.-If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema.
CANON XXX.-If any one saith, that, after the grace of Justification has been received, to every penitent sinner the guilt is remitted, and the debt of eternal punishment is blotted out in such wise, that there remains not any debt of temporal punishment to be discharged either in this world, or in the next in Purgatory, before the entrance to the kingdom of heaven can be opened (to him); let him be anathema.
Sometimes these discussions do reveal things.
Do you think the abuse scandal will dissipate now that Bishops have been told to go to the authorities right away? I think it will because what increased the rage was the cover up. Now if they don't do that I would think the anger would subside.
Peter's Confession of Christ Matthew 16:13 When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"
14They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
15"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
16Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." 20Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.
21From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.
22Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. "Never, Lord!" he said. "This shall never happen to you!"
23Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."
That's quite strong rebuke to the man who Catholics claim was just appointed the position of being Christ's representative on earth, the first pope, the leader of Christ's church, with the power to forgive sins and hold the keys to heaven and hell.
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