Posted on 04/08/2010 11:36:45 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg
A West Texas teen filed a lawsuit Thursday against the Archdiocese of San Antonio and Archbishop Jose Gomez alleging repeated sexual assaults by a parish priest, who he says the church's leadership should have known was abusive.
The allegations came just days after Gomez was named to a high-profile post leading the Archdiocese of Los Angeles, where he is scheduled to be formally introduced to parishioners in May.
The lawsuit accuses the Rev. John M. Fiala of repeatedly sexually assaulting the teen, including twice forcing him to have sex at gunpoint when Fiala was the pastor at Sacred Heart of Mary Parish in the remote community of Rocksprings. The lawsuit alleges the incidents occurred in 2007 and 2008, during Gomez's tenure overseeing a swath of south and west Texas.
(Excerpt) Read more at chron.com ...
“Sin with this degree of stronghold always touches even the innocent”
Of course. Satan loves to debauch the innocent.
“in it’s wake it will not let loose easily because it is so destructive.”
True.
“That is why God called it an abomination.”
Maybe, in part. Another reason is that it is the creation of Satan.
“....perhaps the reason the battle is so fierce is it may be the last stonghold or close to it.”
Perhaps.
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
Evil to s/he who evil thinks.
When an anti-Catholic bigot does not understand, in the slightest, the meaning of a religious act, or the reason behind the smallest part of it, then it is clear to see the hostile bias in their twisted interpretations.
Not to mention the lies.
St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be thou our safeguard against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray. And do thou, O prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God, cast into hell satan, and all the evil spirits who prowl about the world, seeking the ruin of souls.
I watched the Thursday before Easter service at the Vatican for the first time on line. I wish it could have been in English so I would have known just what the pope was saying....hopefully the people there did know, as I really got nothing from what was being said...like he was speaking into the air. However, perhaps it was to be so as I did pay closer attention to the actions and the the various movements of the participants.
The processions etc. reminded me of an Opera Performance... music, lots of flowing garments and such...people taking their positions here and there...the stage for this was surely set in rather a glitz and glamor sort of way. smoke filled objects waving back and forth....and allot of kneeling. But when it came to the communion it was very interesting to view in light of all I have learned about it from the catholic perspective. Took along while to finally bless the bread and wine so the people could partake of it...loads of ritual along the way. But what was amazing was when the distribution was over....now that was hard to understand....
....The pope actually takes his robe and nestles the cup, he drank from, under this robe and walks a long procession to another area, with allot of his people walking with him. They actually put an umbrella over the cup and the pope...I couldn't get over he had this hidden underneath his robe the whole way and changed robes as well... strange indeed. I would have thought the focus to be on the people and more of some sort of blessing on them etc.... but likely some reason for this march to place this cup where they did at this other alter prepared for it...
Then he put the cup in a little gold painted box at an alter filled with candles all around...and actually locked it up! And of course lots of kneeling around this cup in the box. Hummm rather mind boggling to understand why so much focus there..I'd prefer to hear about Christ rather than all this elaborate undertaking...but then some people I suppose need the theater parts. Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey...good enough for me but he will surely come in a different manner when He comes as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. I await that day!
I'll have to look further about why the hype about the cup when the beauty of the whole thing was the people taking the communion and remembering, hopefully, the great price Christ paid for us....that was after all the purpose of this celebration I would think. Hard though to focus on that when there was all the production going on. Reminds me of Protestant churches where you walk in and the stage is set for the show...lights cameras action.
....I fear we have not only lost the simplicity of the Gospel of Christ but it is getting buried in all the fanfare......
“Let’s just leave it that we see this bowing before idols of wood, plaster ,and whatever material made of by men, from differing perspectives.”
Sorry, but I must insist that your opinion is incorrect.
“To you and others there might be an inner need”
There is no “need.” The idea that there might be seems to me an outgrowth of the protestant “either-or” perspective, as against the Catholic “both-and” perspective.
I, and I presume all Catholics, often pray when there is no religious art in sight. Religious art merely serves to prompt thought and contemplation, and to help us get in the best possible disiposition to pray.
“much as a youngster might need a soft teddy-bear or an oldster a warm blanket type of feel.”
You just can’t help but wax insulting, can you? You might want to think about that inability.
“But for others not only are these monuments and forms unnecessary but they are an intrusion into the free-flowing communication between Christ and the individual....more a distraction.”
That’s only because those others have been taught falsehood. The fault lies with protestant doctrine, not with religious art.
“Come to think of it there is quite a bit of nudity and seductive poses in much of the art work and figures in catholic cathedrals and churches.”
You see it that way, do you? I suppose you’d like to have great art draped to conceal the last nipple, eh? That’s why the Puritans had to flee to America. Every other place in Europe had run them off for that kind of nonsense.
“Just a thought as we all know men are visually stimlated.”
I have yet to be “stimulated” by religious art.
“if these art forms give you a sense of comfort etc.”
I’m sure it’s been explained to you many times. If you refuse to get it, well, there’s nothing more I can do.
“well there really isn’t anything wrong with that I suppose.”
Nothing wrong with praying in the vicinity of religious art?
Careful, you’ll get yourself shunned.”
The hyperbolic ranting - it certainly is - seeks the deepest pockets.
Heard on the radio yesterday that ‘Critics’ were not impressed with the Vatican encouraging victims to call the police. Of course not, that’s not where the money is and criminal courts will actually want proof.
It’s deep pockets and the church’s anti abortion position that is fanning this hysteria.
Wow. That is truly the flimsiest argument in favor of praying to dead people I have ever read.
And now because God said He is the God of Abraham that is supposed to be the evidence which permits us to violate the Second Commandment and bow down and serve and pray to statues of dead people???
I didn’t say anything about violating the Second Commandment, or praying or serving statues—not my fight.
I did indicate that those who you consider dead are not dead according to taking my commentator, whom you seem to think guilty of flimsy Biblical scholarship—taking Exodus 3:6 out of context.
You may want to re-consider your position, after looking at the commentary, which is embedded in the 22 chapter of the Gospel of St. Matthew. The commentator is thought by many to be worth following closely. I try to model my scholarship after Hia.
Not my day for typing.
Hia=His; praying to or serving statues.
I doubt God is as easily misdirected as RC apologists hope others are. RCs seem to think this disagreement is of small concern. God thought enough about this grave sin to name it as His 2nd Commandment.
No one can say RCs haven't been cautioned against the idolatry they practice with such strange pride and resolve.
I want to believe that those who seek to blame the victims of pedophile priests don't have children themselves. Thus their lack of compassion.
Nothing in Scripture says dead saints hear our prayers.
Given that they are not dead, do you think that God keeps them more isolated than some one who doesn’t even have high speed?
But therein is my point...this artistic work does not in the least bit ‘prompt thought or contemplation’ for me other than perhaps an appreciation for the time and effort placed in it, for I see it, (perspective), as only art...nothing more. So it does not serve purpose for me and those who might see it as I do...it is artistic work...nothing more.
Were I to be moved in such away it would be sitting beach side, hearing the sounds of the waves lap the shoreline, with thoughts of God reminding me How He establishes the boundaries of the oceans, that they can go no further than His hand allows..... Or walking in a rain shower feeling grateful for His provision to quench our thirst for Him... ...And even in a field of wild flowers wondering what was He thinking when He designed such color and beauty for us to enjoy.... and in all these places find within myself a sense of wonder and awe for His greatness, love and life given, which so readily reflects His creative acts to and for us. He is the designer and creator of these and they can and do draw me to Him at special places and times.
But you see an art object is another mans view, though not without a beauty of it's own perhaps, but still it is his idea or at most a copy of what already is, and in some cases a face of someone he might imagine is or was, which is fine from an artistic point of view, and depending on ones taste for, but rare to move me, and some others, within the soul toward the things of God.
As for the best disposition to pray...well the Lord and I have that worked out quite nicely as I suspect there are others who do as much, without the assistance of artist objects to induce this....
God is very good at recognizing a bended knee....think of A parent watching his child on bended knee....fills the heart and is well noted. A picture that touches the very heart of the parent...as does God when we do so.
Referencing a child and an oldster I thought I made it clear as that “type of feel”...which indeed brings comfort to a child when he might have scraped his chin and is hurting...or to an oldster when needing to feel the comfort from old age that a warm blanket often relieves. I believe there is a sense of need, for some, who find this when they bow before which ever icon they might believe affords them this. Somehow doing so brings them comfort..and some have stated this is so.
...”the free-flowing communication between Christ and the individual”.... has nothing to do with any protestant nor catholic doctrine which I adhere to...or am aware of. It is a personal preference. The less distractions around me ,when I am before God, the better the communication..it is simply a choice I make for those quiet moments...and this would include a church I attend when I worship Him there. Less is best for some...not so for others... it is a matter of ones preference.
As for the nudity etc. from the Renaissance eras so prevalent in the catholic church art...well I was just saying that as so often certain individuals minds get twisted who practice homosexuality...and I think I did read of a certain order of catholic Priests who use to wear something so as not to be stimulated. Taking some of the pictures and art objects down would just seem natural to do...why feed the urges. Though of course the men without these issues likely aren't affected for the most part. But that practice does twist minds.
.....”Nothing wrong with praying in the vicinity of religious art?”....I don't think the references are so much to the “vicinity of religious art”....if you attend a catholic church it can hardly be avoided of course. But I do think it can be an issue for those seen as kneeling before these objects of art...as if they are more than that....or showing some sort of affectionate behavior toward them, which has also been observed. This is what can be disturbing for as we know centuries ago the pagan populations did just that and even some in various countries still do so...it's as if it becomes a ritualistic act, which of course we know God does not look kindly on.
Thank you for your conversation ...will see you on the threads then.
CW
BTW thank you for the imput on the ages of art....very interesting and I am now curious about it further. I have been looking also at the period of the reformation...and the fall of rome...I seemed to have forgotten much since having learned of the little taught in school....it is quite interesting to see how the church came and went thru from those times...including the crusades...much of which were not pretty pictures of the church at those times.
“Any Vatican suggestion to “call the police” is decades too late, if not centuries.”
Decades too late is the point. The Church has developed processes to deal with this issue and has been doing do for decades, but that doesn’t seem to matter. It’s as though this all just happened yesterday.
Nor does it seem to matter that, according to liability insurance companies, the Catholic church has far fewer instances of pedophilia by the clergy than the Protestant churches do to say nothing of the abuse by public school teachers.
The media is after the Church because it is anti abortion and victims are looking for a payday.
And I have children and grandchildren.
If I might chime in....
This whole affair is certainly a mess to deal with is it not?...I think of the scripture...”Be sure your sin will find you out”....and this no matter the institute of which it takes place.
Schools are notorious for covering things over and shipping teachers to other school districts as well...and we all know what Washington does with their own...we are living in vile times no doubt where the innocent remain victims and the perpetrators go free.
I do think because this took place in a church makes it all the more difficult and the damage all the more tragic....it has been a long time coming for it to be cleared out and unfortunately few will escape being impacted by it....from top to bottom. But then that is how God clears things out...either it is done completely or it remains to fester yet again.
I think thus far this pope seems to have the grit to handle the investigation but moreso the understanding to meet the challenges it will bring with it. The church family needs to be patient with the process and let the path be walked until on the other side of it all. But I suspect there will be collateral damage along the way and in some cases unavoidable....quilt by association still has some considerations in the process if for none other than that association.
You are correct to think the Media can and is driving this when it is to their benefit to do so...the truth will not play out in their pages of field notes as we know .And I suspect evidence will be tossed and or hidden to protect some from the fallout, unfortunately that is how the players will play....but the fact it is in the open now, and because of this some deterrence for those who have contemplated these acts within the church present day.
I don't think we should lay blame on the victims even if some may only be looking for a pay day...sin fallout costs in many ways and God has a way of shaking finances to get someones attention...including churches.
The blame lays directly on those who have done these vile acts and to those who enabled these acts to continue....even one child is too many to have taken these attacks...no matter how gentle and sly the inducement. Snakish behavior is what it is no matter the cover of cloth one wears...but it is especially satanic when done under the cover of any church.
The political fallout will of course come into play as well...always does in institutions when crime meets power. Remember Rauhm Emmanuel loves tragedy and uses it for gain. There are those within the church who will do so as well. But few are concerned with the impact on the people of the church I'm afraid. Like politics the people are the pawns and the revenue source so they will be addressed and satisfied only as the coffers are drained in this affair.
That is a very questionable statement, given the fact that Ratzinger's 2001 letter to all the bishops stressed that all victims and their families were bound to complete secrecy after coming forward with a sexual abuse claim against a priest.
Roman Catholic apologists are clearly not dealing with reality.
Sorry, but your misunderstanding of the status of dead saints does not trump the Second Commandment.
Wow. You seek protection and who do you pray to?
An angel.
It might as well be a pixie. No one hears and answers prayers but the Triune God.
"Flee from idolatry."
One of the things the anti-Catholic bigots consistently forget is that this is the United States of America. Men of all faiths — and women — have fought and died so that every citizen here has freedom of religion. It is against the Constitution to try to suppress any belief, although that, I am sure, does not trouble the bigots.
Completely aside from attacking the Holy Father, the stance of the anti-Catholic bigots on FR is that Catholics do not have the right, according to them, to practice their faith, their traditions, and their CHRISTIANITY the way they are led by the Holy Spirit.
I think it would not be going too far to state that the anti-Catholic bigots would like to outlaw the Church. There is evidence of attempts to suppress Catholic teaching, and I have no doubt that some of it comes directly from those who hate Christ’s Church on Earth.
I am quite certain that, as in ages past, some of these scurrilious attacks are based on a venal desire for the Church’s wealth to be stripped, thinking it will make the Church less effective in the world. I also note that some here have very little idea who the Church’s enemy was, during the Crusades. This is surprising, since the same Enemy is active today.
I will, in opposition to self-proclaimed Presbyterian religious authorities, pray to whomever, whenever I wish. I have a feeling that if the REAL Presbyterian church authorities saw some of the “work” of their so-called adherents, they would be ashamed.
St. Michael the Archangle, defend us in battle. Be thou our safeguard against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray. And do thou, O prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God, cast into hell satan, and all the evil spirits who prowl about the world, seeking the ruin of souls.
Presbyterians believe the Bible is the final authority for faith and practice
(I will) pray to whomever, whenever I wish.
That is obvious. And you have so much to choose from. Pity you tend to ignore the only one that matters...
"After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, hallowed by thy name..."
Nothing about praying to St. Michael. But of course, Scripture's instructions are habitually ignored by RC apologists.
Which Presbyterians? The ones who embrace same-sex marriage, abortion? The anti-Catholic bigot Presbyterians? Or both?
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