Posted on 04/01/2010 7:55:47 AM PDT by Biggirl
VATICAN CITY (Reuters) – Pope Benedict, accused by victims' lawyers of being ultimately responsible for a cover-up of sexual abuse of children by priests, cannot be called to testify at any trial because he has immunity as a head of state, a top Vatican legal official said on Thursday. The interview with Giuseppe dalla Torre, head of the Vatican's tribunal, was published in Italy's Corriere della Sera newspaper as Pope Benedict began Holy Thursday services in St Peter's Basilica and Catholics marked the most solemn week of the liturgical calendar, culminating on Sunday in Easter Day.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
Interesting the way you read that comment. I read it to mean there is a lack of accountability through use of means intended to cover, rather than expose criminal activity, including child rape.
In this particular case, the accused, Father Murphy, had sexual relations with 200+ children, per the documentation, and remained a minister in good standing with the Catholic Church. Apparently, he used this continued standing to initiate further contact with his targets.
Those tasked with accounting for and acting on his behavior have “immunity” — at least the pope does, who was contacted regarding this case prior to becoming pope.
I think that was what the comment intended to communicate, the lack of accountability/transparency rather than being a specific allegation.
But I’m sure the poster can speak for himself/herself.
You wrote:
“I don’t hold the “Protestant” view of ecclesiology...The Protestant view is that there is a “holy catholic church.” Of course the Protestant view does not recognize the Romish claims to be that selfsame “holy catholic church.” But nevertheless, Protestants believe that there is some sort of universal church populated by mostly Gentiles.”
Uh, clearly - over all of history since about AD 100 - most Christians, most people in the Church, have been Gentiles. They certainly have not been Jews. Anyone who ever read Acts 15 could see it heading that way.
“And no, I don’t believe in “man-made ecclesiology” either.”
Apparently you do. If you’re denying that the Church is mostly Gentiles then yeah, you do believe in a man-made ecclesiology.
Have a Happy Easter.
In this particular case, the accused, Father Murphy, had sexual relations with 200+ children, per the documentation, and remained a minister in good standing with the Catholic Church.Ignoring the other issues, if the "documentation" was so good, why didn't the criminal authorities act? No conviction. None. Why did the state fail to protect the children? Where is the outrage about that?
Was the information the church had made public (available to authorities) by the church in a timely fashion so they could legally act against the molester?
You wrote:
“Then you would have to agree that the liberal press has completely misrepresented what Cardinal Ratzinger and his office did in regard to the proceeding against Fr. Murphy.
Fr. Brundage is telling the truth. Libs are lying and anti-Catholics are apparently too dumb to know it.”
Actually, there is no way it should have taken decades, DECADES for the Catholic Church to act on this case, as there was knowledge of the transgressions in the 70’s. The link I posted in post 113 has letters detailing sexual molestation as early as 1974.
I dunno, did the victims all fail to report the case to the authorities?
Since the same thing (child abuse and cover-ups) happen regularly in many organizations, including other churches and government run schools, why do you suppose the Catholic Church gets the majority of the bad press in cases like this?
The problem with modern ecclesiologies is that they begin with the NT. But God’s concept of His holy assembly clearly began much earlier.... and He revealed it much earlier.
“”Was the information the church had made public (available to authorities””
The Church does not answer to authorities of states.
Need I remind you of the joke of a justice system we have here in the US where criminals are constantly set free to go on to commit murder,rob,rape etc....
There is a far better Chance to rehab a sexual offender in the Catholic Church than the US justice system.
Perhaps the press ought to write articles non stop on how the US justice system fails and always has.
The cases within the Church are microscopic compared to the failures in the US court system
Sitetest explained possible reasons for non-reporting in post 107. In this case, however, it was reported as early as 1974, by multiple victims.
It seems to me that many Protestant ministers have had their day in the press regarding sexual misconduct of one kind or another, but I actually can’t remember any that involved criminal conduct, just immoral conduct, for which those ministers lost their credentials if they didn’t submit to rehabilitation (if it was even offered, as it usually is for first time offenders).
There was a pastor’s granddaughter in Tracy, CA that was arrested for murdering a child after sexually abusing her...which got quite a lot of coverage.
Whether child sexual abuse is more prevalent in the Catholic Church or not, I don’t know. However, it should not be tolerated anywhere.
“However, it should not be tolerated anywhere.”
I agree.
You posted:
“The Church does not answer to authorities of states.”
I see. An attitude/perspective like that explains much.
May “The Church” enjoy her arrogance, though it doesn’t seem to correspond much with the humility Jesus taught.
Happy Easter. He is risen!
It's not arrogance when the state is evil. The state wants to destroy ,not save them,dear friend
narses, et al.
Is there any doubt now in anyone’s mind that the day is not far away when tribunals will simply incarcerate believers for the crime of not renouncing their Faith in the name of pluralism, and not getting with the program on issues like feminism, abortion, and homosexual rights? Sure they made need a cover story for the trial (”corruption!” “Complicity”), but the underlying reason will be the same.
The simple truth is: the number of people who want the Pope convicted before a kangaroo court for the high crime of being a faithful Catholic would probably make our stomachs churn. These are many of the same folks who wanted to have Bush and Cheney arrested and tried before the Hague.
I truly fear for our future. Terrorists who head states have their crimes erased from the public memory, but the Pope and republican presidents are what the world renounces as evil.
I have heard of this happening. The evil of it is astounding.
So how many priests who are or have been child molesters has the church sent to jail?
God didn’t think the state evil when He instituted it to restrain fallen humanity, neither did the apostle Paul when he called it a “minister of God.”
The state wants to destroy “them?” Who do you mean? The molested children, or the priests who molest them? You are not making sense.
So where was the church when 100’s of minors were molested by those in authority over them. These minors ought to be protected by both the church and the state.
BTW, if your tribunals come, they will simply be fulfilling the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and those faithful to His word have nothing to fear, even if they lose their lives for their faith.
Also, quite a big jump from thinking the pope should testify and the Catholic church should defrock/discipline/turn in to secular authorities those guilty of criminal sexual abuse of children to accusing posters (the world) of renouncing the pope as evil.
Jail is not always a deterrent. The penalty for those who do not repent from grave sin is hell-which is far worse than jail. That said, there is no excuse for anyone who protected a child molester either and did not keep them away from children,even if it's a Bishop ,Priest etc....
As Blessed St. John Chrysostom once said ..."the road to hell is paved with the skulls of bishops"
God didn’t think the state evil when He instituted it to restrain fallen humanity
In the NT Christ instituted the Church ,not the state. The NT is ALWAYS superior to the OT because Scripture is fulfilled in Christ.
neither did the apostle Paul when he called it a “minister of God.”
You're not interpreting Scripture Correct,dear friend.
A state that approves of abortion and legal pornography etc... protected by its WRITTEN LAWS is not a minister of God
The state wants to destroy “them?” Who do you mean? The molested children, or the priests who molest them?
The state does not care about the souls of either.If the state cared it would outlaw abortion ,pornography etc...
Once the state separates itself from the Church it's against Scripture and Church teaching anyway.
Separation of Church and state is an Anathema condemned by the Syllabus of errors of the Church
This why the state will fail
“Jail is not always a deterrent.”
Actually, it is a pretty good deterrent. It is hard to molest people outside of jail when you are in one. As far as the priest repenting, if he was well trained he should know how to ask forgiveness from God, which he can receive in jail as well as out of it.
“In the NT Christ instituted the Church, not the state.”
Do you think Jesus abrogated the state, OR replaced it with the church? If so, you don’t know the Bible very well. Do you mourn the days when the church acted as the state...they were dark days indeed.
“A state that approves of abortion and legal pornography etc... protected by its WRITTEN LAWS is not a minister of God”
I can’t disagree with you there, but that is not what the state exists for or was intended for, as the church does not exist for nor is intended for molestation of children. When the state sticks to its biblical mandate of justice for vivtims and punishmment for criminals, it is indeed carrying out the will of God.
“Separation of Church and state is an Anathema condemned by the Syllabus of errors of the Church”
God protect us from the abuses of the Roman Catholic Church, particularly the ones she instituted/perpetrated when she had political control. Thank God for the proper separation of church and state, where men are free before God to worship Him (or not) as they see fit, allowing God to judge them according to their faith or lack of it. And thank God for the state to protect me from evildoers, including those who would wear a cloak of “religion” even as they molest my body or otherwise try and control my life.
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