You and the disgraced Kung are both quite mistaken.
Posted on 03/25/2010 8:19:34 AM PDT by CondoleezzaProtege
1st Question: Why does the pope continue to assert that what he calls "holy" celibacy is a "precious gift", thus ignoring the biblical teaching that explicitly permits and even encourages marriage for all office holders in the Church?...The rule of celibacy is not a truth of faith, but a church law going back to the 11th Century...
4th Question: Is it not time for Pope Benedict XVI himself to acknowledge his share of responsibility, instead of whining about a campaign against his person?
In his eight years as a professor of theology in Regensburg, in close contact with his brother Georg, the capellmeister of the Regensburger Domspatzen, Ratzinger can hardly have been ignorant about what went on in the choir and its boarding--school. This was much more than an occasional slap in the face, there are charges of serious physical violence and even sexual abuse.
In his five years as Archbishop of Munich, repeated cases of sexual abuse at least by one priest transferred to his Archdiocese have come to light. His loyal Vicar General, my classmate Gerhard Gruber, has taken full responsibility for the handling of this case, but that is hardly an excuse for the Archbishop, who is ultimately responsible for the administration of his diocese.
In his 24 years as Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, from around the world, all cases of grave sexual offences by clerics had to be reported, under strictest secrecy ("secretum pontificum"), to his curial office, which was exclusively responsible for dealing with them. Ratzinger himself, in a letter on "grave sexual crimes" addressed to all the bishops under the date of 18 May, 2001, warned the bishops, under threat of ecclesiastical punishment, to observe "papal secrecy" in such cases...
(Excerpt) Read more at ncronline.org ...
LOLOLOLOL
Hans Kung? HANS KUNG?
LOLOLOLOL
WOW, I llove experts who have no idea of what they are talking about
“Do they really think Non Catholic denominations are safe from attack by secularists? Do they really think that no sins are ever committed by their clergy or members?”
Actually, most non-Catholic denominations DEAL with the problem. They don’t cover up decades of sexual abuse by homosexuals. Caught = out.
Well you really can not know if a cover up happened until somebody exposes the cover up.
So it is only the Catholic Church that has any sinners amongst its clergy and Bishops? It is only the Catholic Church that has ever had any member guilty of sexual abuse? It is only the Catholic Church where the guilty were wrongly and mistakenly viewed as a problem to be handled in house?
And I was not limiting my example of sin to that of homosexual behavior. But since you belong to a sinless denomination I see there is not need for any enlightenment.
Don’t throw dirt in the air to obscure the issue.
NO ONE is claiming their denomination is pure or without sinners or sexual abusers. The question is how the accusations are handled - are they vigorously investigated and turned over for civil prosecution if there is any evidence, or does the denomination try to hide what is going on?
The Catholic Church should have tried to root out this evil:
“1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father’s wife. 2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
3 For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. 4 When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.
6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8 Let us therefore celebrate the festival, not with the old leaven, the leaven of malice and evil, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. 12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians+5&version=ESV
I apologize, I was overly snarky and my tone was uncalled for. I agree that for too long homosexuals (not all, but enough to rightly raise concern) in the priesthood preyed on those whom they should have been protecting from evils.
I do believe the Church is taking the right steps to curb abuse and any resulting cover ups.
I behaved dreadfully towards you and I am truly sorry.
They did (from when they formed initially) but their first few centuries sthey were outside the Catholic communion. The two churches rejoined in roughly the nineteenth century I think (Too tired to google).
Forbidden in some areas, ignored in others, permitted with restriction elsewhere. Try the excellent Catholic encyclopaedia article here: (Halfway down pages is the history of Celibacy of the Clergy section)
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03481a.htm
They say they were never out of communion with the Catholic Church. They were in communion in the Middle Ages, for instance.
Interesting - I know little detail about them, but having had a quick glance at the Catholic encyclopaedia entry on them, I see it’ll take some time to get up to speed. Fascinating group.
Apology accepted, although I took no offense to begin with. ANY church can and will have problems with false believers deceitfully entering it, and abusing its teachings and practices. My only point was that the Catholic Church needed to be more aggressive in facing the problem, and I believe its attitude and approach HAS changed.
Thanks
Wesee what the game is when Kueng starts shooting off his mouth. He is still after all these years trying to highjack the Church for his modernist heresies.
Actually, most deal with the issue by sending on the sinners to other pastures. I grew up in a small town with thirty different Protestant churches and personally—as a teenager—knew of three sexual scandals in local churches. one of them was prosecuted. They were allowed to skip town. The thing about a decentralized system is that there is no record of much of what happens. Much the same story goes for the more than 10,000 public school districts.
The immediate purpose was to prevent the formation of a clerical caste. But the model has been established by the social utility of the monastic orders, who could more easily be the “soldiers of Christ” that Paul commanded Timothy to be. The example of Sts. Francis/Donimic and the mendicants also furthered the idea of a celibate clergy, since they were free to evangelize in a a way that the parish clergy was not.
In a decentralized system like baptists use, it is the congregation’s search committee’s responsibility to check the candidate’s record. Obviously, with no central authority, there is no master list - a weakness of the decentralized system.
However, one does have near instant accountability, and for under-age sex, I cannot imagine a Baptist congregation not turning the wolf over to authorities.
Well, “Baptist” includes a wide range , including many small , small congregations. Today they are more likely to call themselves “Christian” or “Bible” churches. I recall there were 18 “Baptist” churches in my town serving an area population of less than 20,000 —in the East Texas oilfield. Only a few were connected with the SBC. My grandmother was Baptist, and for sveral years attended a small church. The pastor eventually absconded with money she and other people had donated for a new church building. Just disappeared.
You and the disgraced Kung are both quite mistaken.
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