Posted on 03/23/2010 10:58:16 AM PDT by delacoert
An acquaintance of a noted Greek philosopher once lamented, "They deride thee, O Diogenes!" Unperturbed, the philosopher replied, "But I am not derided." Diogenes, who lived from 410-320 B.C., understood that truth, if it is truth, can never be truly harmed by mockery, ridicule or derision .... nor can those who promote it. Falsehood, on the other hand, will easily wither under intense and finely focused disparagement. Thus, ridicule and mockery have long been employed as legitimate devices for distinguishing fact from fallacy.
There is a fine line, however, between responsible ridicule and malicious mockery, and what begins as an honorable effort to separate truth from falsehood can quickly deteriorate into vicious villainy. Thus, there is indeed a fine art to practicing what might be termed godly mockery. Since so few people have mastered this art, most critics suggest this device should not be utilized at all. Some even believe it sinful to employ it. That is a case of casting out the baby with the bath water, however. There is no need to be so radical, if one is simply willing to be responsible.
A scalpel in the hands of a surgeon may result in healing for the one upon whom he uses this blade. In the hands of a sadist that same instrument will inflict harm. It is not the device itself, but the mindset of the one who would employ it, that determines the nature of the outcome. The same with mockery. It can result in suffering or salvation depending upon the heart and mind of the mocker. Some young lads, for example, mocked Elisha and were torn up by two female bears (2 Kings 2:23-24), whereas Elijah mocked the false prophets of Baal (1 Kings 18:27) and won a great victory over them at Mount Carmel. The latter was skilled in the fine art of godly mockery, the former were not. The difference was one of life and death!
While it is certainly true that there are perversions and abuses of mockery, ridicule, sarcasm and other legitimate biblical devices, and that these have on occasion been maliciously employed to stir up strife and generate schisms, it is equally true that these devices have been employed responsibly resulting in positive outcomes. Just because there are fake diamonds being manufactured and sold on the market as genuine jewels doesn't mean there are no real diamonds to be found. One must simply be discerning.
The Pharisees likely did not take kindly to the picture Jesus painted of them as blind men guiding blind men head over heels into a pit (Matthew 15:14), or as legalists straining out gnats while swallowing camels (Matthew 23:24), but this was subtle mockery with a spiritual message! Earlier in the latter chapter, Jesus mocked the rigid religious leaders with these words (aptly paraphrased in the Living Bible) -- "You would think these Jewish leaders and these Pharisees were Moses, the way they keep making up so many laws! And of course you should obey their every whim!" (Matthew 23:2-3). Mockery! But, godly mockery! Jesus sought to alert the people to the arrogance, as well as the dangers, of their leaders, portraying them as Moses-mimes and mandate-makers, men whose whims were expected to be obeyed as though their pronouncements had fallen from the lips of Moses himself. I believe the people got the message. So did the leaders, who wasted no time in seeking to destroy Him. The truth conveyed by the mockery was unmistakable, and it made a lasting impression upon impressionable minds.
As noted earlier, Elijah, one of only two men spared the pain of death, as he confronted the false prophets of Baal on Mount Carmel, "mocked them" (1 Kings 18:27). Through this device the people came to perceive the ridiculous plight of these men as they called out to their lifeless idols and cut themselves in frustration over the deafening silence of their deities. The godly mockery utilized by Elijah presented a profound message to those assembled to witness this duel of deities. What was the outcome? "And when the people saw it, they fell on their faces; and they said, 'The Lord, He is God; the Lord, He is God" (1 Kings 18:39).
The prophet Ezekiel was instructed to prophesy to the people of Jerusalem that God would bring mockery against them for the purpose of shaming them. When sin has brought a people low, derision is one device which just might help facilitate their repentance. "You have brought your days to a close, and the end of your years has come. Therefore I will make you an object of scorn to the nations, and a mocking to all the lands. Those who are near and those who are far from you will mock you" (Ezekiel 22:4-5). The ultimate intent of godly mockery is to restore a people, not to ruin them! Responsible ridicule will bring reformation in its wake, although its barbs may initially be quite painful to bear.
In the first chapter of Proverbs we find Wisdom, personified, speaking rather bluntly to those who have rejected her. "Since you rejected me when I called and no one gave heed when I stretched out my hand, since you ignored all my advice and would not accept my rebuke, I in turn will laugh at your disaster; I will mock when calamity overtakes you" (Proverbs 1:24-26). As with Jerusalem during the time of the prophet Ezekiel, sometimes mockery becomes necessary as a means of bringing a people to an awareness of their spiritual plight. Godly mockery can indeed be used effectively to bring about godly responses from those who have succumbed to the folly of falsehood.
Some of God's people today are ill-informed and misguided. For a few, however, these characterizations are much too generous! A healthy dose of responsible ridicule and godly mockery might just be what the Great Physician requires for some professing His name! Some people respond well to subtleties .... others need a two-by-four between the eyes! That's where mockery, derision, sarcasm and ridicule come in. Used sparingly and responsibly by Spirit-led disciples it may well bring about spiritual healing and reformation.
Joshua Clark, from Washington state, in an article entitled "Satire and Sarcasm" (published on the Internet: July 18, 2002), made some insightful remarks that we would all do well to carefully and prayerfully consider:
"The antithesis between the seed of the serpent and the seed of the woman can at times be found in somewhat biting laughter and mockery. Often Christians get so caught up in restraining themselves from hating their enemies that they end up thinking it is entirely unrighteous to show disdain for them or to mock them. But we find that the Bible is not devoid of ridicule for the fools, and that Christ Himself spread it rather thick on the Pharisees.
"So we see then that sarcasm can be used righteously, but we must define the goal of sarcasm if we are to avoid the more invidious uses that hinder Christian truth. The goal of satire, as with all forms of rebuke, should be to save a person from error. Mockery should not be the form of rebuke in every situation. Yet sometimes mockery is appropriate. Once a person has spurned rebuke, and especially when other Christians are falling into this person's error, open ridicule may be an appropriate way to call them back to truth. There is no cookie-cutter approach to determining propriety in satire, but at times the shrewdest approach appears to be a public ridicule of a person's doctrine so that others are not led astray.
*It was all revealed on 3/8/2010.
It would be interesting to know if I'm now getting browbeaten by two women and not just one. lol.
Seriously, I was joking. It’s from this thread:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2466679/posts?page=1
I’d guess it’s as much as 50/50, but I really don’t know.
some how my Christian friends love the childish toilet humor!
Let me guess, you haven’t seen Monty Python, right?
It is a movie reference from a movie whose whole premise is mockery of the the Holy Grail legends.
“What is the weight of an unladen swallow?”
***
More depravity from the learned!
Yep they are still filthy rags who wallow in this muck
Deut. 28:
29 And thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore, and no man shall save thee.
EPHESIANS CHAPTER 5
Saints exhorted to avoid uncleanness and walk uprightly—Husbands and wives should love each other.
1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
Not that it matters, but my friends and my English professor at BYU were the ones who introduced me to Monty Python.
IOW, the ‘low class humor’ was what was standard fare at the dorms at BYU. The ‘holier than thou’ Mormons were the ones who showed me Monty Python.
Not that it matters, but my friends and my English professor at BYU were the ones who introduced me to Monty Python.
IOW, the ‘low class humor’ was what was standard fare at the dorms at BYU. The ‘holier than thou’ Mormons were the ones who showed me Monty Python.
***
it is no secret there are all kinds of professor even left ones has at BYU but that is the down side to free agency they are hard to tolerate.
...there are many that got so carried away in their pushing the envelope they ended up being excommunicate!
interesting assumption, but this wasn’t a lefty prof or students. Mostly College republicans and honor students
English humor is big with college kids and Monty Python is considered the epitome of English humor.
And you assume I still watch it. Interesting. Or is it just typical LDS superiority complex?
FWIW, I don’t watch TV at all and really only watch movies prior to 1965 (my favorites are WWII ‘morale movies’), but I also believe that Christians have a freedom in Christ so what may be a sin for me, isn’t necessarily a sin for others.
If the Bible is NOT explicit on something, it is a matter of conscience between a believer and God. Kinda along the lines of the caffeine/hot drinks debate on the Word of Wisdom. Is it all hot drinks are a no-no and “Jolt” cola is OK, or is it caffeine is a no-no and herbal teas are ok? I was part of the no caffine at all crowd.
Mormonism cured me of a legalistic attitude that the LDS so often show.
It is interesting about the caffeine my uncle the former bishop popped Excedrin like candy because of the caffeine, a cup of coffee.....no way.
Why?
So you can learn more about MORMONism?
I can supply that need!
Orson Pratt was married to ten women. At age 57 Pratt married a sixteen year old girl, his tenth wife Margaret Graham, younger than his daughter Celestia, causing his first wife Sarah, an outspoken critic of polygamy, to lash out in an 1877 interview,
| “ | Here was my husband, gray headed, taking to his bed young girls in mockery of marriage. Of course there could be no joy for him in such an intercourse except for the indulgence of his fanaticism and of something else, perhaps, which I hesitate to mention.[6] | ” |
Pratt and all of his wives and children struggled with poverty.[7]
In 1886, Orson's wife Sarah Pratt claimed in an interview that, while in Nauvoo, Illinois, Joseph Smith, Jr. was attracted to her and intended to make her "one of his spiritual wives" while Orson was in England on missionary service.[8] To Smith's proposal Sarah replied, "Am I called upon to break the marriage covenant … to my lawful husband! I never will. I care not for the blessings of Jacob, and I believe in NO SUCH revelations, neither will I consent under any circumstances. I have one good husband, and that is enough for me."[9] Pratt issued an ultimatum to Smith: "Joseph, if you ever attempt any thing of the kind with me again, I will tell Mr. Pratt on his return home. Depend upon it, I will certainly do it," [10] a warning that elicited the threat from Smith, "Sister Pratt, I hope you will not expose me; if I am to suffer, all suffer; so do not expose me. … If you should tell, I will ruin your reputation, remember that." After her husband Orson returned from England, Pratt later claimed an incident between Pratt and Smith at her home occurred, and "Sarah ordered the Prophet out of the house, and the Prophet used obscene language to her [declaring that he had found Bennett in bed with her]," according to Sarah Pratt's neighbor, Mary Ettie V. Smith.[10] Sarah told her husband about the incident; Orson took Sarah's side and confronted Smith, who denied Sarah's allegation and responded that she was Bennett's lover.[7] The resulting estrangement between Smith and Orson Pratt, who stood by Sarah in preference to the denials of Joseph, who warned his disciple that "if [Orson] did believe his wife and follow her suggestions he would go to hell,[11].
However, in the local and Mormon press, Sarah Pratt was accused of having had an adulterous relationship, not with Smith, but with Bennett, and numerous affidavits were printed in local and pro-Mormon Nauvoo publications,[12][13] including the leading councils of the church and from members such as Jacob B. Backenstos, a relative of the sheriff of Hancock County. Van Wagoner has dismissed the adultery charges against Sarah Pratt as "highly improbable" and that J. B. Backenstos's affidavit stating that Bennett continued the adulterous relationship with Sarah Pratt after Orson returned from England could "be dismissed as slander."[7]
Orson Pratt became estranged from the church and Smith. Wilford Woodruff stated that "Dr. John Cook Bennett was the ruin of Orson Pratt".[14] Van Wagoner and Walker note that, on August 20, 1842, "after four days of fruitless efforts at reconciliation, the Twelve excommunicated Pratt for 'insubordination' and Sarah for 'adultery'".[15]
Orson soon returned to the church and denounced Bennett. Van Wagoner cites a letter written by Orson's brother Parley P. Pratt,
| “ | Bro. Orson Pratt is in the church and always has been & has the confidence of Joseph Smith and all good men who know him....As to Bennett or his book [The History of the Saints, 1842] I consider it a little stooping to mention it. It is beneath contempt & would disgrace the society of hell and the Devil....His object was vengeance on those who exposed his iniquity.[7] | ” |
Orson wrote a postscript to his brother's letter: "J.C. Bennett has published lies concerning myself & family & the people with which I am connected".[7]
I know there were some here on FR that were REAL curious about ELSIE's M/F ratio a while back...
Galatians 5:12
As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!
Joseph Smith was pushing more than the 'envelope' and it got HIM killed!
MORMON
ATTITUDES OF SUPERIORITY
1. I’m Superior; I have a special gift of the holy Ghost -- you don’t! 2. I’m Superior; I have God’s true priesthood power -- you don’t! 3. I’m Superior; I can go in God’s secret Temple -- you can’t! 4. I’m Superior; I’ve been Endowed with special Gifts and Knowledge -- you’re just normal! 5. I’m Superior; I’ll have my family with me in heaven -- you’ll be with strangers! 6. I’m Superior; I’m becoming a God -- you aren’t! 7. I’m Superior; My women know their place as servants of man and yours don’t. 8. I’m Superior; YOUR creeds are wrong because they come from man - mine comes from God (you can find each one printed in our Scriptures). 9. I’m Superior; I don’t HAVE a creed - I’ve got 13 Articles of Faith. 10. I'm Superior; I have 4 "Bibles"-- the standard works (5 if you count the JST) -- you've only got one: in as far as it is translated correctly. 11. I’m Superior; I can lie with impunity about such things as church membership, church growth, church doctrine, church history, church influence, etc. — -- You can’t. 12. I’m Superior; I am right (everybody knows) when I say 'evangelical' Christians are lunatics -- -- You’re a hideous narrow-minded bigot, who is persecuting me by practicing discrimination by saying I'm not a Christian. 13. I'm Superior; I have a testimony about a prophet -- you don't. 14. I'm Superior; I have a Scripture-producing Amos 3:7 prophet -- you don't 15. I’m Superior; I have a Living Prophet who talks to god every day -- you have a dim-witted hireling of Satan who only talks to himself. 16. I'm Superior; I have my calling & election made sure -- you don't. 17. I’m Superior; I have magic underwear to protect me from the bogey man -- you don’t. 18. I’m Superior; I have secret clasps and grips to give the angel so I get admitted to the celestial kingdom -- you don’t ;so you can’t. 19. I'm Superior; I know secret handshake codes for afterlife entrances-- you don't. 20. I’m Superior; I will see Joseph Smith setting on the right hand of GOD, when I get to Mormon heaven, and he will recognize me and judge me favorably -- You’re on your own; when you get to wherever you’re going! 21. I’m Superior; I’m going to hie to Kolob -- you’re going to who knows where. 22. I’m Superior; I get to have a harem and act like a celestial stud for time and all eternity -- you don’t. 23. I’m Superior; I have sun stones, moon stones, sky stones, cloud stones, Saturn stones, and the evil eye of Osirus guarding my temple -- all you have is a stupid cross. 24. I’m Superior; My church has billions in assets stashed away -- yours has taken a stupid vow of poverty. 25. I'm Superior; Last - we have the power to keep a whole race out of our priesthood if we wanted to reinsert our 148-year legacy (we ARE still keeping an entire GENDER at bay!) Revision 46.1
Semi-Official creed of the EXclusive club of Freeper Flying Inmans.
All rights liable to be abused. |
Shaw right. My antennas go up anytime one would refer to his or herself as even having an "M/F ratio." Can't say I'm surprised. :-)
Take me to the window. Let me look at the moors with you once more, my darling. Once more.
I did watch “Chef” when I was in culinary school. First series was the best.
“Salt?!?! He wants salt?!?!?”
Thanks else, that is what I was hoping for.
Don’t let Resty hear ‘bout your an’tennas goin’ up!
She might take it the wrong way.
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