WAS A “RESTORATION” OF THE GOSPEL NECESSARY?

mormon.org ^ | 2009 | mormon.org

[svcw]

“Nothing less than a complete apostasy from the Christian religion would warrant the establishment of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”—History of the Church, Volume 1, p. XL

According to LDS Scripture, the Apostle John (D&C 7) and the three Nephites (3 Nephi 28) never died. So, how could Gospel “authority” have left the earth, needing “restoration”?

“…in the latter times some shall depart from the faith…”—1 Timothy 4:1

If only “some” would depart from the faith, how could a “complete apostasy” have occurred? Did Jesus fail to preserve His Church against the gates of hell?

“I will build MY church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” —Matthew 16:18

“...that you should earnestly contend for the faith which was once [for all time] delivered unto the saints.” —Jude 3

“...but though we, or an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.” —Galatians 1:9

[Tennessee Nana]

Additionally, if mormon missionaries were to actually “share” beliefs with Christians, they would be called on the carpet.
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That would explain why when mormons are invited to visit Christian Churches, they get unreasonably offended...

[xzins]

Obviously, a participant to an event is a witness of that event. However, with 2 or more witnesses will a claim be upheld.

Jesus addressed that once.

John 8:13-18--"The Pharisees, therefore, said unto him, Thou bearest witness of thyself; thy witness is not true. Jesus answered, and said unto them, Though I bear witness of myself, yet my witness is true; for I know from where I came, and where I go; but ye cannot tell from where I come, and where I go. Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man. And yet if I judge, my judgement is true; for I am not alone, but I and the Father that sent me. It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me."

Jesus says that the testimony of one witness is valid if:

1. The witness knows his own origin and his own destination.

2. If he affirms the validity of his own witness.

3. If God affirms it in some miraculous manner.

We cannot apply those rules to Philip, because we don't have that much detail.

For what it's worth, the following (literal translation) doesn't necessarily say that Philip was "transported".

39and when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, and the eunuch saw him no more, for he was going on his way rejoicing; 40and Philip was found at Azotus, and passing through, he was proclaiming good news to all the cities, till his coming to Cesarea.

[Saundra Duffy]

I have said all I am going to say about my Savior. He is my Lord. You say my Jesus is not your Jesus. There is nothing more I can do nor should I have to. Jesus is my advocate with the Father and He loves me. That’s all that matters. God bless you.

[Invincibly Ignorant]

Well then it becomes a matter of whether or not the person thinks your writings are inspired or not. I happen to not.

[reaganaut]

I can tell that for some reason the existence of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the doctrines the church teaches upset you very much.

I wonder why it has to be this way. If you don’t agree with Mormonism, why not just ignore it and let its members choose to practice and believe as they wish? I think that would make life more pleasant for everyone involved

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For SOME REASON??!?!? You can’t think why heretical doctrines claiming to be Christian and leading people down a false path would upset us?? Seriously?

Say you bought a car from a dealer, the dealer promises you that the car is new, in perfect condition, never been in an accident, all checked out, full warranty. You pay A LOT of money for this car.

Shortly after buying the car, it breaks down, the engine is shot, the fluid leaks, the radio quits working, and the transmission slips. You go back to the dealer and he just shrugs and says “it’s your problem now”. You do research and found out the car was totaled. There is no warranty and nothing you can do to get your money back.

How would you feel? Would you warn others about this crooked dealer? Of course.

That is all we are doing. We are warning others about the LDS church.

As long as the LDS want to be considered Christians, then their history/doctrines are up for the same scrutiny as anyone else.

Fish or cut bait. Either be ready to defend you history and doctrines or don’t claim to be Christian. It is simple. But I will not stand by and let a group that claims I am an apostate insult my Savior and my God without a fight. Ain’t happening.

[Normandy]

Thank you for the prayers. I can use all the help I can get :)

[reaganaut]

SURELY the ‘truthfulness’ of MORMONism will prevail!

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A faith that cannot withstand scrutiny is a faith that is not worth having.

Several LDS leaders have made a similar challenge and I took them up on it believing that the LDS church would prevail. I was wrong about that, thank God!

[Normandy]

Seriously, Reaganaut, I don’t know any believing Latter-day Saint who insults or disparages Jesus Christ. Without him we have nothing.

We are completely dependent upon Him for all we have and are and are in complete need of His love and grace.

I was baptized a Latter-day Saint as a young man 25 years ago. I have never once regretted my decision. I have no desire for a refund.

Best,

Normandy

[Invincibly Ignorant]

For what it's worth, the following (literal translation) doesn't necessarily say that Philip was "transported". 39and when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, and the eunuch saw him no more, for he was going on his way rejoicing; 40and Philip was found at Azotus, and passing through, he was proclaiming good news to all the cities, till his coming to Cesarea.

That's interesting. I had never considered it wasn't a transport. Which way do you lean?

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Saundra,

I asked a simple question. You constantly claim mormons are Christians. You constantly claim you love your church. You constantly claim you love Jesus.

I simply asked which Jesus you are claiming to love:

Do you love the Mormon Jesus:

- Created Being, like every angel and person (not God)
- came to earth as an ordinary man (and not God)
- Didn’t have an infinite life to lay down for anyone (since he was simply a man)
- Couldn’t therefore be a Savior to anyone
- worked his way up to mormon godhood, to join the billions of other gods in the mormon pantheon of gods

OR

Do you love the Biblical Jesus:

- Never created or made
- God from eternity to eternity
- Came to earth, never losing his eternal Godhood
- Had an infinite, perfect, sinless life on earth
- Laid down His perfect, infinite life to pay for the sins of mankind
- Is Savior, therefore, to all who place faith in His Gracious Gift (the gospel)
- Ascended back to heaven after rising from the dead and sits at the right hand of God the Father

Is it really that hard a question Saundra? Let me go first.

I love the Biblical Jesus Christ!

You claim to “love Jesus”. Which one?

awaiting your answer,
ampu

[svcw]

Norm, I can tell you my uncle a former bishop calls me a primitive because I believe and claim Jesus Christ as Savior.

[reaganaut]

Plus any religion than can have a univeristy for which Jimmer Fredette plays can’t be all bad.

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You would be surprised. I attended BYU. Shudder.

And being Catholic don’t you think that a group that claims to be Christian yet thinks that the atonement really took place in the Garden, that the fall of Adam and Eve is a ‘fall upward’, that God had sex with Mary to concieve Jesus, and that Jesus is the brother of Satan should be challenged on those beliefs.

The LDS is not benign by any means, and their doctrine certainly isn’t.

[Normandy]

I don’t know what he would mean by the term “primitive”.

I’ve never heard it used to describe a person. The only time I’ve heard the term discussed would be in terms of the Primitive Church, i.e. the Church that was established in the times of the early apostles.

I would call you a Christian.

[reaganaut]

Do you mean that Latter-day Saints slander Jesus?

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Yes, the LDS claims that Jesus was a created being...

...the physical son (concived by ‘natural’ means) of God the Father....

...only one of 3 Gods (for THIS world); one of millions of other Gods...

...was probably married...

...suffered in the Garden (with a ministering Angel) rather than taking upon man’s sins on the Cross (with no angels)...

...whose blood doesn’t cover ALL sin...

...and was a ‘victim’

ALL THAT IS SLANDER TO CHRISTIANS!!!

[reaganaut]

If you truly loved the True Christ such concepts would be as abhorrent to you as they are to me. That they are not...

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Exactly. Someone who truly loved Christ wouldn’t accept those doctrines.

[reaganaut]

Normandy, I do like you. You are not easily offended. You make good casual conversation. Not much, if anything, expressed in overblown hyperbole. Your intentions always seem high. I think you can add much to these dialogues by sticking around.

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I echo this statement.

[reaganaut]

LOL ping to #114

[reaganaut]

You folks realize that GENTILE (to MORMONs) is ANYONE who is NOT Mormon.

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Even Jews.

[reaganaut]

Until I’m taken into the clouds or covered with clods, whichever comes first.

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I like that. A little old lady friend who owned the local Christian bookstore used to say in response to “see you later”: “Here, There, or In the Air”. They were also her last words to her pastor.

Wonderful woman.

[restornu]

Ya all display boorish behavior condescending, catty remark, bating all the things the a Pharisees would do....

There is no Christ like qualities from any of you antis!