Posted on 03/16/2010 10:51:13 AM PDT by Paragon Defender
“You all don’t believe in Christ the way we do so YOU aren’t Christian.”;
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Hogwash. The whole premis of the LDS church is the need for a ‘restoration’ because of a “Universal apostasy”. I can cite several sources and give you years of experience where the LDS say ‘well WE are the only “TRUE” Christians, and the Gentiles are apostates’, starting with the First Vision.
Did you take out your endowments prior to the 1990 changes, when the minister was still a hireling of Satan.
Doctrine determines if a group/person is a Christian or not. The LDS want to be considered Christian, their history and doctrine is up for the same scrutiny as any other group would be.
Oh brother. This whole article stems from a false premise, that doctrine does not matter in determiniation of what is Christian.
Right doctrine will lead to Good works, but good works will not lead to right doctrine. That is where the LDS go off the rails.
Christians are called to defend the faith from those who seek to be equal to us yet deny our faith. Defense of Christian doctrine is NOT hatred or anti-Christian behavior.
The LDS not only want to be able to control who are Christians, but also who are Mormons yet cringe at any scrutiny. They want to claim to be Christians while teaching heresy.
Who defines what Mormons believe - Mormons do.
Who defines what Christians believe? Christians do.
Mormons have historically claimed that they are not Christians. In fact, their scripture imortalizes it.
The account currently found in the Pearl of Great Price was written in 1838. In this record young Joseph asked Deity “which of all the sects was right.” The Son of God answered that “they were all wrong; … that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: ’they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.’ ” (JS—H 1:18–19.)
In an 1842 account known as the Wentworth letter, the Prophet wrote, “Two glorious personages … told me that all religious denominations were believing in incorrect doctrines, and that none of them was acknowledged of God as his church and kingdom.” (Backman, First Vision, page 169.)
Why the change now? Is it so more people can be duped into the false Christianity? So that people will be kept ignorant that Mormonism is in fact a different gospel than Christianity?
Your ‘prophet plainly said that all creeds were an abomination, hardly words that convey the “Kymbaya” feeling the PR Department in SLC wants to portray now that they have discovered over the past couple of decades how sound a brand name ‘Christian” really is globally.
Nice try.
When you get down to it, Mormons don’t even believe in the Book of Mormon. They believe in Doctrine and Covenants. The Book of Mormon contradicts much of Mormonism’s theology. [hootowl]
Hootowl, what are even talking about? Either you’re joking or completely uninformed. [EB]
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Hoot is completely correct. The BoM is claimed to be the ‘fullness of the everlasting gospel’, yet many core LDS doctrines (exaltation, temple rituals, garments, etc) are found in the D&C, NOT the BoM.
The BoM also teaches the Trinity and praying to Christ.
And yes, I can provide sources. :)
I am always amazed at the LDS who think they can get buy with “we don’t believe that” in the information age when everything is available online.
Who made the LDS arbiters of Christianity.
When you say “Wouldn’t you agree that someone who believes in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and Redeemer of mankind through his Atonement, “ do you mean the same things as when a Christian says it? NO.
Words mean things and the LDS have different views on “son of God”, “redeemer”, “salvation” and “atonement”.
You stated “They compliment and support each other” refering to the book of mormon & the Bible.
So does Scientology, the Koran, the Talmud, etc... yet they each have their own way of looking at Jesus & their own prophets. Why is it so important that Mormons be called Christians now, when they were so against the ‘apostates’ to begin with? Just because the BOM supports the Bible, doesn’t mean that the Bible supports the BOM.
There are eight essential Fundamentals of Christianity
1. The Deity of Christ
2. The Trinity
3. Bodily Resurrection
4. Salvation by Grace
5. Sufficiency of Scripture
6. Universality of Sin
7. The Atonement
8. The Virgin Birth
Using these Biblical Fundamentals we can easily see withou bias how differing religious sects align with Christianity. Catholics, Protestants and most Non-Denominational Christian Churches will agree with these basic tenets of Christianity. Using this doctrinal comparison chart, we can identify non-Christian sects without any bigotry or bias.
How does Mormonism line up with these Fundamentals? Not at all with the exception of bodily resurrection where we see some overlap.
Christianity is not defined by an opinion about another faith ... but is defined by the central belief that Christ is the Resurrected Son of God, and the only available path to Salvation. To the extent that an “anti-Mormon” believes that, he is a Christian.
Huh, well, that’s my core belief and I am LDS. Can I put my name in your quotes instead of “anti-Mormon”?
And hey, YOU don’t believe as Mormons believe, so YOU’RE not Christian.
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Up until recently (at least the mid 1990’s), that HAS been the LDS attitude.
I re-read anew through several sections and it is clearly trinitiarian in aspect and approach, even more clearly that the Bible in some ways.
Of course as the LDS con was developed and the power of promising godhood as a sales tool became apparent, that all had to be kicked to the curb, which in this case means using the old tried and true Pee Wee Herman "No I didn't" methodology which is standard LDS SOP.
“Defense of Christian doctrine is NOT hatred or anti-Christian behaviior.”
No, but hating sure is.
“The LDS not only want to be able to control who are Christians, but also who are Mormons yet cringe at any scrutiny. They want to claim to be Christians while teaching heresy.”
And, as I remember, there was a whole lot of killing that went on between Catholics and Protestants on that same question. After y’all get things COMPLETELY sorted out, let me know. In the mean time, I’ll lay down and take a nap since it’s going to take you a while.....
The basic premise of Mormonism is that the Church Christ founded somehow needed a restoration. Unfortunately, this cannot be true, unless Christ is a liar.
“Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.” Mat 5:14-15
So here Christ says His Church will be visible.
“And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Mat 6:18
Here Christ says his Church will not be destroyed.
“I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.” John 16:12-13
“But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.” 1Tim 3:15
Here Christ says, and Paul reaffirms, that the Church will always teach the TRUTH.
Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." Mat 28:18-20
Again, here Jesus assures us that He is always with us, to the very end.
So Christ says His Church will not be destroyed or fall away from him, that the Holy Spirit will guide the Church to always teach the Truth, and He will always be with us. Yet Mormons believe the Church went into apostasy.
The only reason for a ‘restoration’ is that Christ lied.
So when, exactly, did the Church stop teaching the Truth and go into apostasy? Should be an easy question.
What I'm curious about is where do you draw the line? How many differences can you allow one church to have from yours to still be Christian?
The impostor and his “flock” claiming to be the real thing, there is your lie.
is = if. “Only if Christ was a liar.”
Show me where disagreeing with LDS doctrine and quoting their own scriptures and leaders is ‘hate’. Just because I am trying to point out the errors and lies of MORMONISM does not mean I hate individual Mormons.
Have you paid attention lately? Most Protestant and Christians sorted that out LONG ago. And you show another fundamental mistake the LDS make, that Jesus has a ‘denomination’. He doesn’t. The ‘church’ is the Body of Believers regardless of what denomination they attend. They become a member of that body by grace through faith alone, not membership in a ‘church’. What matters is the specific doctrines concerning the Person, work and Nature of Jesus Christ, something the LDS DO NOT agree with Christians on but Protestants and Catholics do.
One last point, because we accept the idea of a reformation and not a ‘restoration’ Christians can agree, learn from and even examine closely Christian Church history and admit that mistakes were made.
But the LDS, being a ‘restoration’ group does not have that luxury. If they admit mistakes, then the LDS church as become ‘reformed’ rather than ‘restored’.
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