Redemptive Suffering

http://www.thedefender.org/RedemptiveSuffering.html ^ | unknown | Fr. Yves Conger

[stfassisi]

A Summary: Redemptive suffering is the belief that human suffering, when accepted and offered up in union with the Passion of Jesus, can remit the just punishment for one's sins or for the sins of another. Like an indulgence, redemptive suffering does not gain the individual forgiveness for their sin; forgiveness results from God’s grace, freely given through Christ, which cannot be earned. After one's sins are forgiven, the individual's suffering can reduce the penalty due for sin.

We believe God loves mankind so much that He made Himself human in Jesus in order to redeem mankind. "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (Jn 3:16)

We believe our suffering can be united to that of Christ and so in union with His Passion. "As they were going out, they met a Cyrenian named Simon; this man they pressed into service to carry his cross." (Matthew 27:32)

Why Suffering: (1) Everyone asks the question (in some form or another), Why suffering? Each religion has a different answer. In Hinduism, suffering is seen as the result of karmic debt owed from a prior incarnation. Buddhists believe they suffer in life because of their desires that can be relieved by good meditation and prayers. In Judaism, suffering is seen as everything from senseless to positively willed by God as a result of Jewish disobedience. In Islam, suffering is seen as the result of Allah's positive will. For some brands of Protestantism, suffering is always the result of personal sin.

Every human being undergoes pain, and we all want it to have meaning (and so not despair). Amidst this, always remember: there are two kinds of suffering-redemptive suffering and wasted suffering…Which one will you choose?

The Catechism of the Catholic Church encourages and reminds us of our vocation: "By His passion and death on the Cross Christ has given a new meaning to suffering: it can henceforth configure us to Him and unite us with His redemptive passion" (#1505).

The Value and Meaning of Redemptive Suffering: (1) Redemptive suffering is any trial or tribulation (physical or mental) we offer up and UNITE to Jesus- as a "gift" to Him to express our love thru a costly way, in exchange for some other good. Notice the key elements: we consciously choose embrace suffering; it is precious (a "gift") because it is painful (not fun or "easy"); it brings us closer to Jesus in an intimate and intense way; and the suffering may "spiritually repair" my own soul or others-and thereby help in the work of redemption (Christ's allowing me to help Him save souls).

Other names/descriptions of this phenomenon include: vicarious atonement (Jesus, Who alone can atone the sins of the world, chooses others to "vicariously assist Him" and thereby weave more people into the plan of salvation; victim souls (a person whose primary call as a disciple in life is to especially suffer for the saving of other souls); and co-redemption.

Ask yourself these questions: How can I intensely merge my sufferings with Christ (i.e., more deeply)? How can I more readily blend my trials with Him (i.e. not hesitating in offering suffering to Him)? How can I consistently entwine my difficulties with Him (less sporadically)?

The Bible and Suffering: There are many versus in the Bible referring to redemptive suffering. The following verses are a few of those most quoted: "Whoever follows me must take up his cross..." (Mt 10: 38).

"So they departed from the presence of the Sanhedrin, rejoicing that they had been counted worthy to suffer disgrace for the name of Jesus." (Acts 5:41) "

"Therefore we are not discouraged, rather, although our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day. For this momentary light affliction is producing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison. (II Cor 4: 16). "

"With Christ I am nailed to the cross. It is now no longer I that live but Christ Who lives in me" (Gal 2:19-20).

"Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, for I fill up what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ." (Col:24).

“This indeed is a grace, if for consciousness of God anyone endures sorrows, suffering. unjustly." (I Pt 2: 19).

“For the Spirit Himself gives testimony to our spirit that we are the sons of God. And if sons, heirs also; heirs indeed of God and joint heirs with Christ: yet so, if we suffer with Him, that we may be also glorified with Him. The sufferings of this time are not worthy to be compared with the glory to come that shall be revealed in us.” (Rm 8:16-18)

“What we suffer at this present time cannot be compared at all with the glory that is going to be revealed in us...We know that all things work for good for those who love God...For I am convinced that neither life nor death...nor future things, nor powers nor any other creature can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus" (Rm 8:18, 28,38).

Offering it Up: (2) Offering it Up (or "Making a Good Intention") is done in both formal and informal ways.

Formally, many Catholics make the Morning Offering to give to Our Lord that day's efforts, works, joys, sufferings, and intentions. At the Mass, we consciously, silently, and privately offer ourselves up, along with the Son, to the Father during the Offertory.

Informally, we "offer it up" by simply asking God in our own words to use a suffering as it occurs; we often do this for specific intentions (ex., "Use this pain, Lord, for the salvation of my brother..."). We might follow the example of the young St. Thérèse of Lisieux and make use of Sacrifice Beads, or the extraordinary among us might make the Heroic Act of Charity for the souls in Purgatory.

It's quite a discipline to react to suffering this way! In mental or physical pain? Drop something on your toe? Putting up with a co-worker who is making your life a living Hell? Enduring the constant ache of arthritis? Standing in line at the grocery and hating every minute of it? Spill the milk? Accept these things in peace, and ask God to use them for the good of the Church or for a more specific intention close to your heart.

You'll find that it is not uncommon to hear one Catholic tell another who is suffering to "offer it up" as a way of dealing with his suffering. It should be remembered, though, that while it is most definitely good to tell someone to "offer it up," it is also easy -- and that we are called, too, to comfort those who are suffering, to feed the hungry, to give drink to the thirsty, to care for the sick, etc. Telling someone to offer it up without also helping him to deal with the temporal and emotional effects of whatever he is going through is not the fully Christian response. Even Our Lord was helped while carrying His Cross: St. Veronica wiped the sweat and Blood from His Holy Face, and St. Simon of Cyrene helped Him bear the Cross itself.

And always help the suffering to retain (or regain) hope that his suffering is not in vain. Assure him that he will partake of "the consolation":

The Ultimate in "Offering it up": Victim Souls (2) A victim soul is someone who has been chosen by God to participate in Christ's Passion in a very special way by manifesting the signs of His sufferings, often in their very own bodies. Suffering for the sake of love is their vocation, and such suffering is willingly accepted for the benefit of the Church. The attitude and plea of the victim soul is summed up by this prayer of St. Catherine of Siena, “The only cause of my death is my zeal for the Church of God, which devours and consumes me. Accept, O Lord, the sacrifice of my life for the Mystical Body of Thy holy Church. “

St. Lydwine of Schiedam, the Venerable Anne Catherine Emmerich, and St. Pio of Pietrelcina (Padre Pio) were three other such souls, and there have been many more. Often, but not necessarily, these souls receive the stigmata on the palms of their hands or on their feet, the wounds left by the crown of thorns, wounds in their sides as if made by a lance, stripes on their bodies as if caused by scourging, and other bodily phenomena that recall His Passion.

In conclusion: "It is in suffering that we are withdrawn from the bright superficial film of existence, from the sway of time and mere things and find ourselves in the presence of profounder truth." + Fr. Yves Conger, French priest-theologian.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you oh so very much for sharing your testimony, dearest sister in Christ, and your insights!

Truly, we Christians must also suffer as part of our redemption. Thank you dear brother in Christ for your wonderful testimony and insights!

For the Scriptures say:

For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together. - Romans 8:14-17

Concerning the disposition of my sins, I rely on God's perfect justice.

His justice is that we each individually build the scales whereby we will be each and individually measured – weight by weight.

Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. – Matthew 7:1-2

God assures the balance:

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: - Luke 6:37

Blessed [are] the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. – Matt 5:7

Forgiveness is the precondition to having our petitions granted. In the Lord's Prayer, we agree:

And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. - Matt 6:12

And after giving us the Lord's Prayer, Jesus says:

For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. - Matt 6:13-14

And again here:

Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive [them], and ye shall have [them]. And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses. – Mark 11:24-26

And I personally extend it to forgive and forget, because that is His justice for us, His adopted children:

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

[Whereof] the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Now where remission of these [is, there is] no more offering for sin. - Hebrews 10:14-18

To God be the glory, not man, never man!

[Quix]

AMEN! AMEN!

[betty boop]

In other words, the way I read it is that if you recieve the last rites, that is, before your death you confess your sins and re absolved of them, then you do not die "imperfectly purified" and your soul is not subjected to purgation.

I don't read it that way, dear kosta. It seems to me God's justice is not to be had that cheaply. A truly penitent sinner is forgiven — but that does not cancel the sinner's obligation or restitution for wrongs caused by the sin. In other words, the Lord's Justice metes measure for measure. Thus, "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you."

Or at least this is my belief, as matters presently stand....

[oprahstheantichrist]

Brilliant, brother Q.

Sort of on the subject, this was just posted:

http://ft111.com/tavolacci.htm

[mlizzy]

BTw, pray for a friend of mine with fibromyalgia whom I fear is becoming addicted to the pain medications.

Ask your friend how much water (bottled in clear plastic, spring water, not "drinking" water) she drinks in a day. She needs 2 ounces for every ounce of body weight. If she's not drinking that much, tell her to try it ... takes care of a MULTITUDE of health issues ... including fibromyalgia.

Also, here is a testimony from someone with the illness that uses Young Living Essential Oils to aid:

I was introduced to Young Living Essential Oils and NingXia Red in March 2007. I was looking for a natural way to deal with the pain I had been suffering with fibromyalgia since 2005. I used to hurt the worse in the morning, aching so bad I could barely move. After the first bottle of NingXia Red I realized how much better I felt. Then I learned of the oils for pain including Pan Away, Lemongrass and Lavender. These all help with the deep muscle aches associated with fibromyalgia. I learned that acidosis, the state of pH in our bodies that is too acidic, is a starting place for many ailments, so I chose to avoid coffee, sugar and MSG (monosodium glutamate, a food additive). If I needed something sweet I would choose fruit, toast with honey or nuts drizzled with real maple syrup. I also started drinking more water, which I would add oils to, including peppermint, lemon or grapefruit. After just 2 months of these changes I have increased energy and a significant reduction of pain. I can now wake in the mornings and move freely. I have also lost 16 lbs. Many thanks to God and to the people of Young Living. Christine McCullough

And here's our site re: Young Living. If I can be of help, Salvation, give me a holler. Your friend doesn't have to live with so much pain.

[armydoc]

Obviously you did not understand my point. I was talking about the ultimate “partiality” of election; He saves those He will save based on His divine partiality.

[stfassisi]

“”It seems to me God’s justice is not to be had that cheaply. A truly penitent sinner is forgiven — but that does not cancel the sinner’s obligation or restitution for wrongs caused by the sin. In other words, the Lord’s Justice metes measure for measure. Thus, “Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.”””

I agree with the measure for measure ,but we can not rule out the possibility there could be some people that go directly to heaven after death because they have led very holy lives and “paid back the last penny” and than some for others that God allowed through reparation. I would think this is not the norm and such people are Saintly while here on earth.

Anyway,here is a great article by the late FR William Most on the measure by measure

How Redemption Operated
http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/most/getwork.cfm?worknum=160

Excerpt..

So Paul VI continues:”For every sin brings with it a disturbance of the universal order, which God arranged in unspeakable wisdom and infinite love.” In other words, God being Holiness itself, loves everything that is right. This was a striking idea when it first broke on the world. For the gods of Mesopotamia, Greece and Rome were not just immoral but amoral - they acted as if there were no morality at all. But Psalm 11:7 told the world: “God is sadiq [morally righteous] and He loves the things that are morally right.” Hence the notion that sin is a debt which the Holiness of God wants paid.

Against this background Paul VI continued (p. 7): “Therefore it is necessary for the full remission and reparation of sins... not only that by a sincere conversion of mind friendship with God be restored, and that the offenses against His wisdom and goodness be expiated, but also that all the goods, both personal and social, which pertain to the universal order itself, which were diminished or destroyed by sin, be fully restored, either through voluntary reparation... or through enduring penalties established by the just and most holy Wisdom of God.”

Since the chief topic of this constitution was that of indulgences, which depend on the “treasury of the Church” Paul VI put the redemption into that background. He said the “treasury of the Church is the infinite and inexhaustible price which the expiations and merits of Christ the Lord has before God....”

Simeon ben Eleazar, a Rabbi writing about 170 A.D. (Tosefta, Kiddushin 1. 14), and claiming to base himself on Rabbi Meir from earlier in the same century, gives us a striking comparison which helps to illustrate the text of Paul VI: “He [meaning “anyone”] has committed a transgression. Woe to him. He has tipped the scale to the side of debt for himself and for the world.”

The image is a two-pan scales. The sinner takes from one pan what he has no right to have. The scale is out of balance. The Holiness of God wants it righted. How do that? If he stole some property, he begins to rebalance by giving it back. If he stole a pleasure, he begins to rebalance by giving up some pleasure of similar weight.

But we kept saying “begins”. For the imbalance from even one mortal sin is infinite, an Infinite Person is offended. So if the Father wanted a full rebalance - He did not have to - the only way to achieve it would be to send a divine Person to become man. That Person could produce an infinite value. Paul VI put the redemption into this framework.

All sinners of all times took an immense weight from the two-pan scales. But Jesus gave up far more than they had stolen, in His terrible passion.

So this is the price of redemption, the rebalancing of the objective order, which the Holiness of God willed. Rom 5:8 said,”God proved His love.” Yes, if someone desires the well-being of another, and starts out to procure it, but then runs into an obstacle - if a small obstacle will stop him, the love is small. If it takes a great obstacle, the love is great. But if that love could overcome even the immense obstacle of the terrible death of Jesus, that love is immense, beyond measure. It was not only the physical pain, but the rejection by those whom He loved that hurt Him. The pain of rejection can be measured by two things: 1) how severe is the form of the rejection; 2) how great is the love for the one who is rejecting. If someone jostles me in a crowd, that is a small thing. But if he wanted to kill me, that is far worse, and if he means to do it in the most hideous way possible - then the rejection is at the peak . And what is His love?: Inasmuch as He is a Divine Person, the love is infinite; in as much as we consider the love of His human will, able to overcome such a measureless obstacle - the love is beyond measure.

[Marysecretary]

Wow, that is your best post yet. Thank you.

[Quix]

Thanks for your humbling words.

BLESSED BE THE NAME OF THE LORD.
BLESSED BE THE WAYS OF THE LORD.
BLESSED BE THE WORD OF THE LORD.

Your link is worth sharing, I think:

http://ft111.com/tavolacci.htm

ELAINE TAVOLACCI
Staten Island, NY

www.awordinseason.info

“Step Up to the Plate”

March 11, 2010
The Lord says I Am calling those of you who have been looked upon as “the underdog” to step forward and take your rightful place in My Kingdom. I am calling those of you who have been considered outcasts. I am calling those that have been mocked, scorned, shunned and abused. Those of you that have been forsaken and rejected it is now your time to step up to the plate in My Kingdom.
You have heard it said that there is a shifting, a shaking, and a changing of the guard and this is rightfully so. Have I not said in My Word that I will resist the proud and give grace to the humble? Do not feel inadequate or allow your human reasoning to dictate to you. Do not look at your circumstances in the natural. I Am about to turn things around for My glory. I will take the foolish things of this world to confound the wise. Do not be concerned and wonder to yourselves how this can come to pass. For I have plans beyond mere mortal reasoning. Just trust in Me to make this shift.

Do not think that you need a podium, a pulpit or a platform to reach the multitudes. I will make a way for you to be My voice. Every place on which the sole of your foot treads I will give to you for this shall be your platform. I will use you in the highways, the byways as well as the marketplace. Do not say in your heart that you are not worthy to be used in a great magnitude. Do not see yourself as a grasshopper when I called you to be a giant slayer. I will open new and productive doors for you and I will bring you out to bring you in to what I have for you as you move forward one step at a time.

Watch and see how I will bring those of you that have been considered the underdog to the front lines. I will turn things around in your life and do things that will astound you as you step up to the plate and trust Me says the Lord.

1 Corinthians 1:26 - 29
For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, that no flesh should glory in His presence.

James 4:6
But He gives more grace. Therefore He says: “ God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble”.

[Quix]

Half expected you to say that. LOL.

PRAISE GOD FOR HIS FAITHFULNESS through this poor tool.

Thanks for your kind and humbling words.

[Quix]

My heart was persistently going out to you in my mind as I was typing that. I knew that you knew the truths of it way above average.

I prayed and hoped you’d find some comfort in it, somehow.

GOD BE WITH YOU PRECIOUS SISTER IN CHRIST.

[kosta50]

It seems to me God's justice is not to be had that cheaply. A truly penitent sinner is forgiven — but that does not cancel the sinner's obligation or restitution for wrongs caused by the sin. In other words, the Lord's Justice metes measure for measure

Then, I suppose, "your sins are forgiven " (absolution) and "their iniquities I will remember no more" is for naught. An eye for an eye, or, as you say, "measure for measure" is what "cheapens," that is if the NT is any measure at all.

Thus, "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you."

The sinner is called to repentance and God promises forgiveness as I recall. Once forgiven, the believer is called to do unto others and he would have others do unto him. You do not forgive those who trespass against you by punishing them after forgiving them; you forgive others so that God may forgive you, or at least that's what I was taught.

But our respectful traditions differ in that regard, as both differ with regard to the Protestant way of looking at it.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so very much for sharing your insights, dearest sister in Christ! And thank you for sharing your insights, dear kosta50!

betty boop:It seems to me God's justice is not to be had that cheaply. A truly penitent sinner is forgiven — but that does not cancel the sinner's obligation or restitution for wrongs caused by the sin. In other words, the Lord's Justice metes measure for measure. Thus, "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you."

I perceive that when we forgive and forget the trespasses against us, God likewise forgives us.

However, that does not mean there will not be others accusing us before Him, of trespasses against them.

I perceive how we react to those accusations is important. I, for one, will not attempt to justify or excuse myself before God - or return fire. And, in this life, I will attempt to cure whatever injuries I have caused simply because it is the right thing to do.

However, I also know that I cannot possibly undo my wrongs or make the injured parties whole. I cannot make it not be true.

So I shall accuse no one before God. And when the accuser makes his complaint against me, I shall be silent and instead rest in God's justice and promises.

Forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors...

God's Name is I AM.

[Quix]

INDEED.

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!

[betty boop]

You do not forgive those who trespass against you by punishing them after forgiving them; you forgive others so that God may forgive you, or at least that's what I was taught.

"Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us" strikes me as acknowledging that we gain remission from our sins in the measure we forgive our fellow trespassers. This is "measure for measure," but not of the "eye for an eye" type. It is imbued with the spirit of Love. God wants us to love one another, and blesses us when we do.

Or so it seems to me. FWIW

[betty boop]

I perceive that when we forgive and forget the trespasses against us, God likewise forgives us.

Your essay/post is simply glorious, dearest sister in Christ! So deeply wise and poignant. Thank you ever so much for writing this magnificent testimony.

God's Name is I AM.

[betty boop]

I agree with the measure for measure ,but we can not rule out the possibility there could be some people that go directly to heaven after death because they have led very holy lives and “paid back the last penny” and than some for others that God allowed through reparation. I would think this is not the norm and such people are Saintly while here on earth.

I think/believe this cannot be ruled out of possibility.

Thank you oh so much for the link, dear brother in Christ, and for the wonderful excerpts from "How Redemption Operated."

[Quix]

I much agree, Betty.

imho . . . I try to release them in my heart from my wanting to see them punished AT ALL.

I do often want them to learn whatever lessons God wants them to learn about the particulars.

However, I don’t want them punished. I choose to forgive

AS I’D WANT FORGIVEN—fully, freely, completely . . . THAT GOLDEN RULE THING AGAIN.

[Quix]

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!

[Quix]

Plausible.

Though I still do not believe per se in Purgatory.