Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: esquirette; xone
Good question -- let me answer what I, personally,in my humble opinion, have read is the "spin" of Calvin and Luther on predestination. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Lutheran believed in an unconditional election to salvation while Calvin believed in Unconditional election to salvation and damnation

Martin Luther's attitude towards predestination is set out in his On the Bondage of the Will, Luther based his views on Ephesians 2:8-10, which says: "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." Luther maintained that sin incapacitates human beings from working out their own salvation, that they are completely unable to bring themselves to God. Luther believed in single predestination. That is to say, desiring to save all fallen human beings, God sent his Son Jesus Christ to atone for the sins of the whole world on the cross.

This differs from Calvin's view of Unconditional election which teaches that before God created the world, He chose to save some people according to His own purposes and apart from any conditions related to those persons

Calvin believed that human beings did not have free will because that would take away from the power of God. Man could not actively work to achieve salvation. God predetermines at the beginning of time who would be saved and who would be damned. Those predestined for salvation were defined by their virtuous lines, and they were referred to as "the elect." Also, the elect could be determined by their economic and material success.

In contrast, Luther believed that anyone could reach salvation as long as he had faith. This belief is shown in his famous statement "justification by faith." One does not have to be "chosen" to have faith under Martin Luther's beliefs.
677 posted on 03/20/2010 5:26:29 AM PDT by Cronos (St. Ambrose -- elected by popular acclaim)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 676 | View Replies ]


To: xone; esquirette
The lutheran position is, imho, far closer to the orthodox and to the idea of a loving God than the calvinist.

37. But as earnestly as we maintain that there is an election of grace, or a predestination to salvation, so decidedly do we teach, on the other hand, that there is no election of wrath, or predestination to damnation. Scripture plainly reveals the truth that the love of God for the world of lost sinners is universal, that is, that it embraces all men without exception, that Christ has fully reconciled all men unto God, and that God earnestly desires to bring all men to faith, to preserve them therein, and thus to save them, as Scripture testifies, 1 Tim. 2:4: "God will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth." No man is lost because God has predestined him to eternal damnation. -- Eternal election is a cause why the elect are brought to faith in time, Acts 13:48; but election is not a cause why men remain unbelievers when they hear the Word of God. The reason assigned by Scripture for this sad fact is that these men judge themselves unworthy of everlasting life, putting the Word of God from them and obstinately resisting the Holy Ghost, whose earnest will it is to bring also them to repentance and faith by means of the Word, Act 13:46; 7:51; Matt. 23:37.

678 posted on 03/20/2010 5:51:11 AM PDT by Cronos (St. Ambrose -- elected by popular acclaim)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 677 | View Replies ]

To: xone; esquirette
I'll quote from newadvent which describes this difficult subject far better than I could aspire to do so
the Catholic dogma of predestination keeps the golden mean, because it regards eternal happiness primarily as the work of God and His grace, but secondarily as the fruit and reward of the meritorious actions of the predestined. The process of predestination consists of the following five steps: (a) the first grace of vocation, especially faith as the beginning, foundation, and root of justification; (b) a number of additional, actual graces for the successful accomplishment of justification; (c) justification itself as the beginning of the state of grace and love; (d) final perseverance or at least the grace of a happy death; (e) lastly, the admission to eternal bliss. If it is a truth of Revelation that there are many who, following this path, seek and find their eternal salvation with infallible certainty, then the existence of Divine predestination is proved (cf. Matthew 25:34; Revelation 20:15). St. Paul says quite explicitly (Romans 8:28 sq.): "we know that to them that love God, all things work together unto good, to such as, according to his purpose, are called to be saints. For whom he foreknew, he also predestinated to be made conformable to the image of his Son; that he might be the first born amongst many brethren. And whom he predestinated, them he also called. And whom he called, them he also justified. And whom he justified, them he also glorified." (Cf. Ephesians 1:4-11) Besides the eternal "foreknowledge" and foreordaining, the Apostle here mentions the various steps of predestination: "vocation", "justification", and "glorification". This belief has been faithfully preserved by Tradition through all the centuries, especially since the time of Augustine.

...[cf. Apocalypse 3:5: "and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life" (cf. Exodus 32:33)].
And the rest of it requires a lot more deeper reading by me -- but interestingly enough, it holds true. The Calvinist position does not
680 posted on 03/20/2010 5:59:19 AM PDT by Cronos (St. Ambrose -- elected by popular acclaim)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 677 | View Replies ]

To: Cronos

You have described double pre-destination, which is a hyper Calvinist, what might be termed a fatalist view.

Phil Johnson provides an excellent treatment of supralapsarianism, infralapsarianism, and Arminianism at
http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/articles/sup_infr.htm

Ultimately, no one disagrees that the saved are called by God. It is the order of the decrees that are significant.

The traditional Calvinist view is that if God only chooses those who already believe, then His sovereignty is non-existent, and so is His omniscience. He must foreknow His own, because He created all things and knows all things.

Certainly there are many adherents to the Arminian view, which Catholicism espouses. My experience with that view, weak as that may sound, and my reading, indicate that the Arminian view that we choose God is man-centered, and by extension, provides for the loss of salvation, so that no one can ever be secure in God.


686 posted on 03/20/2010 7:01:11 AM PDT by esquirette (If we do not know our own worldview, we will accept theirs.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 677 | View Replies ]

To: Cronos
In contrast, Luther believed that anyone could reach salvation as long as he had faith. This belief is shown in his famous statement "justification by faith." One does not have to be "chosen" to have faith under Martin Luther's beliefs.

It is better to phrase what Confessional Lutherans believe by what is contained in their confessional documents. Since God works faith in man referring to Jesus as 'the Author and Perfector' of ones faith and God will 'save who He will' save, it is incumbent upon the Christian to humbly kneel and stay out of that which would be considered God's business.

Luther's statement 'Justification by faith' is a Scriptural echo of the Apostle Paul. As far as having to be chosen to have faith, how does a human quantify the mind of God in this matter? We KNOW from Scripture that election to salvation occurs, it is a fact. As the segment 'Of the Election of Grace' states that the 'Universal Gracious Will of God embraces all men' but the 'Election of Grace' embraces some. The seeming disparity has to wait for the light of heaven to be resolved.

Not all things are knowable, but the things needed for salvation and a God-pleasing life are; they reside in the pages of Scripture.

Your first staement appears that Luther thought faith was a 'work'. If it is a 'work' it is God's work not man's.

688 posted on 03/20/2010 8:02:34 AM PDT by xone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 677 | View Replies ]

To: Cronos; esquirette

‘Traditional Lutheran’ summary:

Arminius: If I end up in heaven our hell it is my doing.
Calvin: If I end up in heaven or hell I’ll praise God because His Will was done.
Luther: If I end up in hell it is my fault, if I end up in heaven, Praise God!.


689 posted on 03/20/2010 8:17:24 AM PDT by xone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 677 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson