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To: Cronos

You have described double pre-destination, which is a hyper Calvinist, what might be termed a fatalist view.

Phil Johnson provides an excellent treatment of supralapsarianism, infralapsarianism, and Arminianism at
http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/articles/sup_infr.htm

Ultimately, no one disagrees that the saved are called by God. It is the order of the decrees that are significant.

The traditional Calvinist view is that if God only chooses those who already believe, then His sovereignty is non-existent, and so is His omniscience. He must foreknow His own, because He created all things and knows all things.

Certainly there are many adherents to the Arminian view, which Catholicism espouses. My experience with that view, weak as that may sound, and my reading, indicate that the Arminian view that we choose God is man-centered, and by extension, provides for the loss of salvation, so that no one can ever be secure in God.


686 posted on 03/20/2010 7:01:11 AM PDT by esquirette (If we do not know our own worldview, we will accept theirs.)
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To: esquirette

there is a difference between the Church view and the Arminian view — I just need to read up on what that is!


700 posted on 03/20/2010 11:25:41 AM PDT by Cronos (St. Ambrose -- elected by popular acclaim)
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