Posted on 03/04/2010 8:51:48 AM PST by greyfoxx39
-SNIP-
"The old Catholic church traditions are worth more than all you have said," Joseph told his followers in a sermon delivered less than two weeks before he himself was murdered by a mob. A strong foundation for friendship and respect toward Catholics was laid down in the earliest years of Mormonism.
(Excerpt) Read more at deseretnews.com ...
There go the MORMON miracles and the MORMON healings right out the window!
And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
She could instead sing” If You Could Hie to Kolab,”
- - - - - - -
As requested - check out the last line of the first verse.
IF You Could Hie to Kolob, 284 – William W. Phelps
1. If you could hie to Kolob In the twinkling of an eye,
And then continue onward With that same speed to fly,
Do you think that you could ever, Through all eternity,
Find out the generation Where Gods began to be?
2. Or see the grand beginning, Where space did not extend?
Or view the last creation, Where Gods and matter end?
Me thinks the Spirit whispers, “No man has found ‘pure space,’
Nor seen the outside curtains, Where nothing has a place.”
3. The works of God continue, And worlds and lives abound;
Improvement and progression Have one eternal round.
There is no end to matter; There is no end to space;
There is no end to spirit; There is no end to race.
4. There is no end to virtue; There is no end to might;
There is no end to wisdom; There is no end to light.
There is no end to union; There is no end to youth;
There is no end to priesthood; There is no end to truth.
5. There is no end to glory; There is no end to love;
There is no end to being; There is no death above.
There is no end to glory; There is no end to love;
There is no end to being; There is no death above.
read down the article.
Let the historical record on Mormon Church anti-Catholic (not to mention anti-Christian) utterances and the Mormons’ “revealed” word of God speak for itself:
Apostle Orson Pratt, “The Seer,” p. 255:
“Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the ‘whore of Babylon’ whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent.”
President Brigham Young, “Journal of Discourses,” vol. 5, pp. 73:
“When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness.”
President Brigham Young, “Journal of Discourses.” vol. 8, p. 199:
“With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world.”
President Brigham Young, “Journal of Discourses,” vol. 8, p. 171:
“The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God.”
President Brigham Young, “Journal of Discourses,” vol. 6, p. 176:
“Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell. The eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and then kicked on to the earth.”
President Brigham Young, “Journal of Discourses,” vol. 6, p. 167:
“Christianity . . . is a perfect pack of nonsense . . . . [T]he devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century.”
Apostle Heber C. Kimball, “Journal of Discourses,” vol. 5, p. 89:
“Christians—those poor, miserable priests brother Brigham was speaking about—some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth, and at the same time preaching righteousness to the children of men. The poor devils, they could not get up here and preach an oral discourse, to save themselves from hell; they are preaching their fathers’ sermons —preaching sermons that were written a hundred years before they were born.”
Apostle Orson Pratt, “Journal of Discourses,” vol. 18, p. 172:
“But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of Christian Churches ... But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance.”
(”What Has the Mormon Church Historically Taught About Christianity?,” at: http://www.i4m.com/think/history/mormon_christians.htm)
And here’s more blatant Mormon anti-Catholicism from not only the mouth and time of Brigham Young, but also from the time of Joseph Smith, as well as after Brigham Young:
“There’s a couple of things to consider before examining the Book of Mormon and what it says about the Catholic Church:
“1. Starting with the First Vision, Mormonism teaches that all churches except the Mormon Church are an abomination in the sight of God.
“Joseph Smith History 1:18-20:
“’My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.’
“’I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw• near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.” He again forbade me to join with any of them. . . .’
“2. The Doctine and Covenants also has Jesus Christ condemning ALL other churches, and especially the ‘great and abominable church.’
“D&C 1:30-31”
“’And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually— For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance . . . .’
“D&C 38:10-11:
“’Verily I say unto you, ye are clean, but not all; and there is none else with whom I am well pleased; For all flesh is corrupted before me; and the powers of darkness prevail upon the earth, among the children of men, in the presence of all the hosts of heaven . . . .’
“D&C 29:21:
“’And the great and abominable church, which is the whore of all the earth, shall be cast down by devouring fire, according as it is spoken by the mouth of Ezekiel the prophet, who spoke of these things, which have not come to pass but surely must, as I live, for abominations shall not reign.’
“D&C 88:94:
“’And another angel shall sound his trump, saying: That great church, the mother of abominations, that made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, that persecuteth the saints of God, that shed their blood—she who sitteth upon many waters, and upon the islands of the sea—behold, she is the tares of the earth; she is bound in bundles; her bands are made strong, no man can loose them; therefore, she is ready to be burned. And he shall sound his trump both long and loud, and all nations shall hear it.’
“3. The Church has a history of identifying the Catholic Church as the great and abominable church:
“’The present Christian world exists and continues by division. The MYSTERY of Babylon the great, is mother of harlots and abominations of the earth, and it needs no prophetic vision, to unravel such mysteries. The old church is the mother, and the protestants are the lewd daughters. Alas! alas! what doctrine, what principle, or what scheme, in all, what prayers, what devotion, or what faith, `since the fathers have fallen asleep,’ has opened the heavens; has brought men into the presence of God; and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to an innumerable company of angels? The answer is, not any: “There is none in all christendom that doeth good; no, not one.’ (Apostle John Taylor, “Times and Seasons,” Vol.6, No.1, p.811
“’Babylon, literally understood, is the gay world; spiritual wickedness, the golden city, and the glory of the world, The priests of Egypt, who received a portion gratis from Pharaoh; the priests of Baal, and the Pharisees, and Sadducees, with their “long robes,” among the Jews, are equally included in their mother’s family, with the Roman Catholics, Protestants, and all that have not had the keys of the kingdom and power thereof, according to the ordinances of God.’ (Prophet John Taylor, “Times and Seasons,” vol. 6, no.1, p. 939)
“’Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the “whore of Babylon” whom the Lord denounces... as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. And any person who shall be so wicked as to receive a holy ordinance of the gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent of the unholy and impious act. If any penitent believer desires to obtain forgiveness of sins through baptism, let him beware of having any thing to do with the churches of apostate Christendom, lest he perish in the awful plagues and judgments, denounced against them. The only persons among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people who have authority from Jesus Christ to administer any gospel ordinance are those called and authorized among the Latter-day Saints. Before the restoration of the church of Christ to the earth in the year 1830, there have been no people on the earth for many generations possessing authority from God to minister gospel ordinances. We again repeat. Beware of the hypocritical false teachers and imposters of Babylon!’ (Apostle Orson Pratt, “The Seer,” vol. 2, no. 4, p.255)
“’A great portion of the oriental country has been preserved from the grossest idolatry, wickedness, confusion, bloodshed, murders, cruelty, and errors in religion that have overspread the rest of the world, under the name of Christianity, or mystery of iniquity. An open defiance of God is no mystery; open drunkenness, and revelling debauchery, and all manner of wickedness and immorality professed by sinners who profess to be nothing else, are no mystery; they do not deceive anybody; but when all manner of wickedness, idolatry, drunkenness, and corruption is cloaked under a sacred name, under an outward sanctity and holiness, and under as high and dignified an appellation as Christian, it is a mystery of iniquity; and that has overspread a great portion of the world, and has borne rule until the present day, sometimes under the name of Roman universality, sometimes under the name of the Greek Church, and at other times under various classes and names.’
‘Many that were honest have been deceived by this mystery of iniquity, who have esteemed things to be sacred, which were abominably corrupt; and corrupt superstitions have been revered because of the great names and sanctified professions that were attached to them. If such institutions actually professed wickedness, they would go for what they were worth; but when a thing professes to be holy, and takes the name of Christ as its founder, and the holy Prophets and Apostles, to carry out all manner of oppression, all manner of idolatry and idol worship, all manner of priestcraft and kingcraft, and more or less instigating division among nations and governments, all to carry out bloodshed, cruelty, the rack, the inquisition, and holding of men in bondage, ruling them with a red of iron, it is a mystery of iniquity calculated to deceive millions.’
‘But returning to the general corruption that has prevailed nationally, politically, and religiously, under the name of Christianity, leaving out Christ and his Apostles, I do think there has been no idolatry in the world, under any form or system, that could surpass it. It is the mystery of iniquity, the great whore of all the earth. It has brought the whole earth under a lasting curse, having departed from the laws of God, changed the ordinances, and broken the everlasting covenant, in consequence of which the earth is destined to be burned, and few men left.’ (Apostle Parley P. Pratt, “Journal of Discourses,” vol. 3, p. 41)
“’How long has this order of things existed, this dreadful apostacy, this class of people that pronounced themselves Zion, or Christians, without any of the characteristics of Zion? It has existed for some sixteen or seventeen centuries. It has spread itself and grown and gone into the four quarters of the earth. It is the great ecclesiastical power that is spoken of by the revelator John, and called by him the most corrupt and most wicked of all the powers of the earth, under the name of spiritual Babylon, or in other words Babel, which signifies confusion. This great and corrupt power is also represented by John as presenting a golden cup to the nations, full of all manner of filthiness and abominations.’
“’She is termed, in other places, by the same prophet, “The whore of all the earth,” making the nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. Some three centuries ago there came out sortie excellent men, named Martin Lather, John Calvin and many others that might be mentioned, who protested against the wickedness and abominations of the Church wherein they had been educated, and of which they had been members. Because of their protestations against the mother Church they were called Protestants. They pronounced her the whore of all the earth; they declared that she had no authority, that she had none of the blessings and gifts which characterized the ancient Christians. They came out and established other Churches . . . . But among all these Churches where are the characteristics of Zion? We hunt for them in vain.’ (Apostle Orson Pratt, “Journal of Discourses,” vol. 14, p. 346)
“’Thrones shall be cast down, and the Ancient of Days shall sit, and the body of the fourth beast (or Babylon) shall be given to the devouring flame, and then shall the remnant of the heathen know that the Lord is God, for they shall see and hear of his judgments, which he shall execute upon the corrupt powers of the earth under the name of modern Christianity, scripturally called “Babylon the Great”—”The whore of all the earth,” with whom the nations for centuries have committed fornication, and have drank out of her filthy cup. O Babylon! thou hast decked thyself with costly ornaments! Thou has clothed thyself with the most gaudy apparel! Thy seminaries of learning, and thy theological institutions have been multiplied far and wide. Thy priests are polished with all the refinements of a profound and extensive education. Thy costly and magnificent churches have been erected in great numbers throughout all thy borders. The merchants of the earth have made themselves rich through the abundance of thy luxuries. The learned—the great—the mighty—the kings of the earth, have glorified themselves in thy grand and superb palaces. Thou hast indeed enrobed thyself in the royal splendors of a queen. Thine external appearance has excited the admiration of all nations. But internally thou art rotten with the filth of thy whoredoms.’ (Apostle Orson Pratt, “The Essential Orson Pratt,” p. 109)
“’The Roman Catholic, Greek, and Protestant church is the great corrupt ecclesiastic power, represented by great Babylon which has made all nations drunk with her wickedness, and she must fall, after she has been warned with the sound of the everlasting gospel. Her overthrow will be by a series of the most terrible judgments which will quickly succeed each other, and sweep over the nations where she has her dominion, and at last she will be utterly burned by fire, for thus hath the Lord spoken. Great, and fearful, and most terrible judgments are decreed upon these corrupt powers, the nations of modern Christendom; for strong is the Lord God who shall execute His fierce wrath upon them, and He will not cease until He has made a full end, and until their names be blotted out from under heaven.’ (Apostle Orson Pratt, “Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon,” pp. 84-5)
“In that context, here’s what the Book of Mormon says:
“1 Nephi 13:5-6:
“’And the angel said unto me: Behold the formation of a church which is most abominable above all other churches, which slayeth the saints of God, yea, and tortureth them and bindeth them down, and yoketh them with a yoke of iron, and bringeth them down into captivity. And it came to pass that I beheld this great and abominable church; and I saw the devil that he was the founder of it.’
“1 Nephi 13:8:
“’And the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold the gold, and the silver, and the silks, and the scarlets, and the fine-twined linen, and the harlots, are the desires of this great and abominable church.’
“1 Nephi 13:26:
“’And after they [the prophecies and testimonies of the Bible] go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away.’
“1 Nephi 13:28:
“’Wherefore, thou seest that after the book [the Bible] hath gone forth through the hands of the great and abominable church, that there are many plain and precious things taken away from the book, which is the book of the Lamb of God.’
“1 Nephi 13:34:
“’. . . [T]he Gentiles do stumble exceedingly, because of the most plain and precious parts of the gospel of the Lamb [Bible] which have been kept back by that abominable church, which is the mother of harlots, saith the Lamb.’
“1 Nephi 14:3:
“’And that great pit, which hath been digged for them by that great and abominable church, which was founded by the devil and his children,, that he might lead away the souls of men down to hell—yea, that great pit which hath been digged for the destruction of men shall be filled by those who digged it, unto their utter destruction, said the Lamb of God; not the destruction of the soul, save it be the casting of it into that hell which hath no end.’
“1 Nephi 14:9:
“’And it came to pass that he said unto me: Look, and behold that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil.’
“1 Nephi 14:10-11:
“’And he said unto me: Behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the Lamb of God, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the Lamb of God belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth. And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the whore of all the earth, and she sat upon many waters; and she had dominion over all the earth, among all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people.’
“1 Nephi 14:12:
“’And it came to pass that I beheld the church of the Lamb of God, and its numbers were few, because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters [oceans]; nevertheless, I beheld that the church of the Lamb, who were the saints of God, were also upon all the face of the earth; and their dominions upon the face of the earth were small because of the wickedness of the great whore whom I saw.’
“1 Nephi 14:13:
“’And it came to pass that I beheld that the great mother of abominations did gather together multitudes upon the face of all the earth, among all the nations of the Gentiles, to fight against the Lamb of God.’
“1 Nephi 14:15-16:
“’And it came to pass that I beheld that the wrath of God was poured out upon that great and abominable church, insomuch that there were wars and rumors of wars among all the nations and kindreds of the earth. And as there began to be wars and rumors of wars among all the nations which belonged to the mother of abominations, the angel spake unto me, saying: Behold, the wrath of God is upon the mother of harlots; and behold, thou seest all these things . . . ‘
“1 Nephi 14:17:
“’And when the day cometh that the wrath of God is poured out upon the mother of harlots, which is the great and abominable church of all the earth, whose founder is the devil, then, at that day, the work of the Father shall commence, in preparing the way for the fulfilling of his covenants, which he hath made to his people who are of the house of Israel.’
“1 Nephi 22:13:
“’And the blood of that great and abominable church, which is the whore of all the earth, shall turn upon their own heads; for they shall war among themselves, and the sword of their own hands shall fall upon their own heads, and they shall be drunken with their own blood.’
“1 Nephi 22:14:
“’And every nation which shall war against thee, O house of Israel, shall be turned one against another, and they shall fall into the pit which they digged to ensnare the people of the Lord. And all that fight against Zion shall be destroyed, and that great whore, who hath perverted the right ways of the Lord, yea, that great and abominable church, shall tumble to the dust and great shall be the fall of it.’
“2 Nephi 6:12:
“’And blessed are the Gentiles, they of whom the prophet has written; for behold, if it so be that they shall repent and fight not against Zion, and do not unite themselves to that great and abominable church, they shall be saved; for the Lord God will fulfill his covenants which he has made unto his children; and for this cause the prophet has written things.’
“2 Nephi 10:16:
“’Wherefore, he that fighteth against Zion, both Jew and Gentile, both bond and free, both male and female, shall perish; for they are they who are the whore of all the earth; for they who are not for me are against me, saith our God.’
“2 Nephi 28:18:
“’But behold, that great and abominable church, the whore of all the earth, must tumble to the earth, and great must be the fall thereof.’
“The Book of Mormon uses different terms for different things:
“The Great and Abominable Church
“The Whore of All the Earth
“Babylon The Great
“The Harlot
“The Church of the Devil
“There are some verses in the Book of Mormon that talk in broad terms and others that speak of a specific church.
“Babylon the Great” and “The Church of the Devil” are broad terms to mean “not of the church of God.” That’s clearly what 1 Nephi 14:9 is saying. But look at the other scriptures and you’ll see they are referring to a SPECIFIC church:
“- In the Book of Mormon, there are many references to ‘a church which is most abominable above all other churches.’
“- This church had a history of an Inquisition similar to the Roman Catholic Church in that it ‘slayeth the Saints of God, yea and tortureth them and bindeth them down, and yoketh them with a yoke of iron and bringeth them down into captivity’ (1 Ne. 13:5).
“- The people involved with this depraved organization wore finery similar to priestly vestments; their church structures were ornate; and women in their church, like nineteenth-century Catholic nuns, were accused of sexual misconduct. Smith’s Nephi reported in the Book of Mormon that he ‘saw gold, silver, and silks, and scarlets, and fine twined linen, and all manner of precious clothing; and I saw many harlots’ (1 Ne. 13).
“- Smith went on to assert that this abominable church ‘whose foundation is the Devil’ and who is ‘the whore of all the earth’ would pervert the scriptures entrusted to people by God, i.e. the Bible.
“- A book was to come from the Jews which would contain the gospel. The writer claimed this book (The Bible) eventually would fall into the ‘hands of the Great and abominable church’ after which are ‘many plain and precious things taken away from the Book’ (1 Ne. 13:26-29).
“- The Book of Mormon also predicted the sale of indulgences. ‘Yea, it shall come in a day when there shall be churches built up that shall say, come unto me and for your money you shall be forgiven of your sins’ (Morm. 8:32)
heh.
as I said: The LDS came from upper New York and inherited the anti catholicism that was common there when they were founded.
I suspect you could find similar quotes from leading Calvinist/Lutheran/Episcopalian/Baptist leaders from the same time frame.
But Young welcomed the nuns, which is more than you can say for a lot of places in the 1880’s.
as I said: The LDS came from upper New York and inherited the anti catholicism that was common there when they were founded.
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Gosh there goes that BETTERTHANYOUNESS
I thought the idea was to be different ???
The mormons are no better than aznyone else ???
Oh thats not.... NICE...
Plus bigotry is not a disease...
The mormons chose to be bigots...
As Joey Smith chose to ber a bigot...
And blamed the mormon god for his hate of Caholics...
But Young welcomed the nuns, which is more than you can say for a lot of places in the 1880’s.
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When you make something up do you void carelessness ???
You were asked several times for the source of this unlikely tale when you stated in an earlier post..
LadyDoc #35: “Actually, Young welcomed Catholic nuns when they started a hospital there, and even had his surgery at that hospital.”
Some queries...
Elsie #36: “Got a link to this data?”
Reaganaut #39: “Source?”
Nana #46: “Source?”
I didnt get an answer...
But now from this new post it appears it could not possibly have happened...
1. Brigham Young died in the 1870s the decade before the 1880s...
Unless the mormons do operations as well as preach in the mormon after life...
2. Again, Brigham Young would not have “welcomed” the nuns...He was a bigot who ran a theocatic dictatorship...
Unless he could exploit or benefit financially he didnt welcome anyone into the Utah Territory...
There was a hospital/home for caste off wives but I dont think it was run by nuns...
Is that what you mean ???
3. Like other despots, Brigham Young did not trust anyone least of all to operate on him...
and he would not have trusted Catholics to do anything as dangerous as an operation during the mid 1800s...
Presumably Smith would believe the bigoted rants of the Anti Catholic Protestants spread where he grew up in upper NY state...
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Like what for instance ???
Did Joey Smith lie when he claimed that the mormon god in the so called “sacred grove” was the first “bigot” to “rant” about the Catholic Church when he was 14 ???
MEGO!
Duh!
They were WOMEN!!
.....but they could most certainly catch the gullible and help collect from their wallets.
....and so it goes........
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