Posted on 02/26/2010 7:32:49 PM PST by marshmallow
On a recent evening, about 60 peopleex-Episcopalians, curious Catholics and a smattering of earnest Episcopal priests in clerical collarsgathered downtown for an unusual liturgy: It was Evensong and Benediction, sung according to the Book of Divine Worship, an Anglican Use liturgical book still being prepared in Rome.
Beautiful evensongs are a signature of Protestant Episcopal worship. Benediction, which consists of hymns, canticles or litanies before the consecrated host on the altar, is a Catholic devotion. We were getting a blend of both at St. Mary Mother of God Church, lent for the occasion.
One former Episcopalian present confessed to having to choke back tears as the first plainsong strains of "Humbly I Adore Thee," the Anglican version of a hymn by St. Thomas Aquinas, floated down from the organ in the balcony. A convert to Catholicism, she could not believe she was sitting in a Catholic Church, hearing the words of her Anglican girlhoodand as part of an authorized, Roman Catholic liturgy.
And that was not the only miracle. Although the texts had been carefully vetted in Rome for theological points, the words being sung were written by Thomas Cranmer, King Henry VIII's architect of the English Reformation. "He remembering his mercy hath holpen his servant Israel," the congregation chanted, "as he promised to our forefathers, Abraham and his seed for ever."
The language of this translation of the Magnificat, one of Christianity's two great evening canticles, is unfamiliar to many Episcopalians today, as it comes from earlier versions of their Book of Common Prayer. Yet a number of former Anglicans are eager to carry some of this liturgy with them when they swim the Tiber, as Episcopalians becoming Catholic often call the conversion. "I wonder why the phrase 'and there is no health in us' was omitted from the...................
(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...
I'll take those statistics over yours any day.
While the ranks of the unaffiliated have grown the most due to changes in religious affiliation, the Catholic Church has lost the most members in the same process; this is the case even though Catholicism's retention rate of childhood members (68%) is far greater than the retention rate of the unaffiliated and is comparable with or better than the retention rates of other religious groups. Those who have left Catholicism outnumber those who have joined the Catholic Church by nearly a four-to-one margin.
You will notice that NOWHERE does it indicate that all Catholics who leave the Church become Protestants. And NOWHERE does it say that all of those who become Protestant are former Catholics. I'm sure that this is what you WANT it to say, but that's not what it says at all.
Just curious, how many new members has the OPC added? You guys have been at this for nearly three-quarters of a century and there is nothing to indicate that you have even hit the 30,000 mark WORLDWIDE.
And finally, it has been my experience that those people who do leave the Catholic Church and become Protestants are generally going to a liberal denomination. I've known very few Catholics who left the Church to join a Calvinist denomination.
Leaking liberals?
heh,heh, in that case, it’s good news!
I am not certain why you sent this to me. I am not Roman Catholic. It is often said that the two largest denominations in the United States are Roman Catholics and Ex-Roman Catholics. This does not include non-practicing Roman Catholics. The statistics for the Roman Catholic Church membership is highly inflated. Frankly, I do not trust the statistical data from almost all denominations. I suspect that they are all inflated.
As Truman said; " there are lies, damned lies, and statistics". Making any meaningful conclusion from that Pew Study belies a basic lack of understanding of statistics.
The basic difference is the overall population numbers trivializes relative numeric losses. Further, Protestant gains include those who have switched between Protestant denominations and who have switched back to Catholicism.
Ya know wag, I live in a very Catholic area ..guessing maybe 75% RC by birth..But I would also guess that the percentage of practicing Catholics is less than 50% of that number.. In my neighborhood kids see the inside of the church when baptized, then they go to CCd at around 7 so they can make their 1st communion.. after that maybe they will be there for their wedding or funeral.
The number of people that are "social" or" cultural" catholics is overwhelming.. hey will list their "religion' as catholic because that is what they were baptized. So the membership numbers are very unreliable .
This is significant because Catholics believe that mortal sin sends you to hell.. and missing mass with intention is a mortal sin..
I am not OPC, I am PCA here are our stats, for whatever they mean Link
It shows a slow growth, but to me that does not mean much. Attendance at church does not make one a Christian or save them . Absence from church on Sunday does not damn anyone.. I go to church because it gives me joy.. I go because I am hungry to learn more about God, not because of a church rule.
I do not think that most of the "saved" are concerned if Catholics leaving are not becoming "protestant" but we ask has anyone brought them the good news about Christ. Have they had the gospel presented?Have they repented and looked to the cross? Numbers are not important to a Calvinist ..Salvation is ..Christ had small numbers and actually preached in a way to offend and drive off those that would not be saved.. Many are called but few are choosen
The falling away doesn't mean that they will leave the churches; it means that the 'churches' are leaving the Body of Christ. The Lord has called us all out of the churches that man has devised, the "Harlot and her Daughters," to form the true church that exists as he has written it in our hearts. The ecumenical "church" will grow and fall away at the same time.
Most non-denominational churches I know are Bible-believing churches. People are getting hungry for the truth of God and not just ‘religion.’
Can you make a concrete reference, to what is it that I was "shown", please?
There is no such claim. The Roman Catholic theology is the only authentic Christian theology. That we share with the Orthodox and a few other authentic apostolic churches. That they are not in intercommunion with us is sad, but it is not taking away the fact that the Roman Catholic and the Orthodox are true Catholic Churches and the Protestant charlatans are just that, charlatans.
Thank you very much for these points, Vladimir. I, of course, agree completely.
I moved and have the Internet again, but the pressures of work and the task of having my life reorganized atill prevent me from posting much.
We moved a few years back and I hear ya. Hopefully never again.
Exactly...I would think numbers may even increase as the gospel is compromised and made all about men..
I like where I am, near Kansas City.
I understand. Moving is a tremendous task. I just moved last year. Ugh!
Christianity is a relationship, not a religion. We are all accountable to Christ. Each church has its leaders and most are under authority. There are some rogues for sure but the majority have some authority over them.
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