Posted on 02/24/2010 11:17:16 AM PST by Pyro7480
III. Mary is our Mother and Queen of the New Davidic Kingdom
John 19:26 - Jesus makes Mary the Mother of us all as He dies on the Cross by saying "behold your mother." Jesus did not say "John, behold your mother" because he gave Mary to all of us, his beloved disciples. All the words that Jesus spoke on Cross had a divine purpose. Jesus was not just telling John to take care of his mother.
Rev. 12:17 - this verse proves the meaning of John 19:26. The "woman's" (Mary's) offspring are those who follow Jesus. She is our Mother and we are her offspring in Jesus Christ. The master plan of God's covenant love for us is family. But we cannot be a complete family with the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Christ without the Motherhood of Mary.
John 2:3 - this is a very signifcant verse in Scripture. As our mother, Mary tells all of us to do whatever Jesus tells us. Further, Mary's intercession at the marriage feast in Cana triggers Jesus' ministry and a foreshadowing of the Eucharistic celebration of the Lamb. This celebration unites all believers into one famiy through the marriage of divinity and humanity.
John 2:7 - Jesus allows His mother to intercede for the people on His behalf, and responds to His mother's request by ordering the servants to fill the jars with water.
Psalm 45:9 - the psalmist teaches that the Queen stands at the right hand of God. The role of the Queen is important in God's kingdom. Mary the Queen of heaven is at the right hand of the Son of God.
1 Kings 2:17, 20 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the King does not refuse his mother. Jesus is the new Davidic King, and He does not refuse the requests of his mother Mary, the Queen.
1 Kings 2:18 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom, the Queen intercedes on behalf of the King's followers. She is the Queen Mother (or "Gebirah"). Mary is our eternal Gebirah.
1 Kings 2:19 - in the Old Testament Davidic kingdom the King bows down to his mother and she sits at his right hand. We, as children of the New Covenant, should imitate our King and pay the same homage to Mary our Mother. By honoring Mary, we honor our King, Jesus Christ.
1 Kings 15:13 - the Queen Mother is a powerful position in Israel's royal monarchy. Here the Queen is removed from office. But now, the Davidic kingdom is perfected by Jesus, and our Mother Mary is forever at His right hand.
2 Chron. 22:10 - here Queen Mother Athalia destroys the royal family of Judah after she sees her son, King Ahaziah, dead. The Queen mother plays a significant role in the kingdom.
Neh. 2:6 - the Queen Mother sits beside the King. She is the primary intercessor before the King.
Where in the Bible does it say Mary has ANY power?
Read the thread again. It shows the connection between the Queen Mother of the OT and Mary the Mother of the King of Kings in the NT.
How many times must it be repeated that even Scripture itself assures us that there is much more that Jesus said and did that is not contained in it, and that should those things be written, all the books in the world would not be enough but this has been written so that you may know and be saved.
To limit God in such a way is to place on Him the limits of humanity. If He has chosen Mary, why is it so hard to accept her as his emissary?
Further more, the Bible quite clearly speaks of Eve’s part in bringing death and corruption to humanity. And it clearly promises another woman who would bring the opposite.
Mary’s part in salvation was known by God from the beginning.
Clearly he was quite content to come to us through her.
Still doesn’t fly.
There’s no support for those assertions at all in Scripture.
Zip.
Nada.
Nothing.
None.
I think the ultimate cheekiness, snideness is to assert that it doesn’t matter to say quite starkly and plainly that
MARY SAVES all the souls that entrust their care to HER.
There’s nothing at all about SALVATION THROUGH CHRIST’S BLOOD ALONE ANYWHERE CLOSE to that sentence.
The same is true for those other blasphemous idolatrous sentences.
White washing blackness from hell just doesn’t cut it.
Those sentences were not qualified at all. They are stark worshipful over the top and over the cliff blasphemies and idolatries of
MARY AND MARY’S PRESUMED FANTASIZED POWERS ALONE.
THAT’S PLAINLY HIDEOUS.
JURY-RIGGED FANTASIES
ARE NO REMOTELY VALID CONNECTION.
To be in Mary’s care is to be with the one who is closest to Jesus. The one whose heart he heard as he formed in her womb. Her entire life was Him and the salvation He brings. Every action of hers leads to Him, opens the world of humanity to Him. Every honor she is given, is His honor as well.
God could have raised a man out of dust, breathed into him a soul and taken that body for Himself, but He chose to come as an infant in the same way we all come into this world.
He chose for Himself a mother, the one thing He did not have as God. Not a creator, a mother. She is the only one who was there from the beginning and she was there at the end. She was a part of His life, flesh of His flesh and also a part of His death. She held Him as a newborn and then held His lifeless body. She knew who and what He is keeping this knowledge in her heart. She called upon Him to help the wedding couple in Cana and though He was not yet ready to reveal Himself He complied with her wishes.
The Church never claims anything for Mary that is not based on her Son. To entrust oneself to Mary is to submit to God in the same way she did. To affirm that Jesus is Lord and she is His mother. To entrust oneself to Mary is to give one’s life to Jesus, just as she did. A confident fiat to His call. An unfailing faith in His love.
Mary points always to Jesus. To love her is to love Him.
Through her came salvation. Through her came redemption. Through her came LOVE. Through her came grace. Through her came Jesus and through Him all are drawn to God and are sons and daughters of Him.
This was God’s plan, not mine, not the Church’s.
Nice ‘sounding’ rationalizations based on nothing but fantasy.
Shoehorning an ocean full of unwarranted worship and blasphemy on top of Mary is an insult to the authentic Mary.
Your own documents illustrate the blasphemy and idolatry outrageously.
We realize there’s a seeming inherent incapacity to see the realities involved.
This is another case of the Chinese proverb being true . . . the onlookers see the game best.
The blasphemous, idolatrous assertions in Ferraro’s book are made in spite of any of the Biblical truths related to Mary.
Mary herself would rebuke such idolatries and blasphemies in her strongest language, had she permission and access to this dimension again to do so.
There is no fantasy, no idolatry, no blasphemy, only a deep abiding love for Mary and what her simple yes brought to the world.
She is your mother to hold dear or reject. Your choice.
Au contrare to the max.
1. There’s NOTHING SIMPLE about the
HUGE INDUSTRY
built up around
the farcical, UNBIBLICAL, caricatured personage hideously put forward as the authentic Mary.
There is NOTHING SIMPLE about the mental, theological, historical, irrationial gymnastics necessary to foist on the world all the horrific nonsense, lies, deceptions, concocted dogma, doctrines of men and doctrines of demons that construct the HUGE INDUSTRY of CARICATURED MARY INC.
The layers of blasphemy and idolatry are almost too thick, complex and varied to keep track of.
Prottys are happy to bless the authentic Mary for her finished role in Jesus earthly life.
We utterly reject the hideous UNBIBLICAL idolatries and blasphemies in Mary’s name and call on all thinking, Biblically interested folks to do the same.
Jvette said:
“Through her came salvation. Through her came redemption. Through her came LOVE. Through her came grace. Through her came Jesus and through Him all are drawn to God and are sons and daughters of Him.”
The same could be said of every single one of the progenitors of Jesus, all the way back to Eve.
Where is the command of God to venerate Mary? Where is there any indication from God that we should do so? There is none. Thus all who do so stand on very uncertain ground.
Where is the command of God to consider and use Mary as mediator? Where is there any indication from God that we should do so?
You want the world to do as you do, think as you think, and believe as you believe regarding Mary. But were is the clear and unambiguous indication from God that we should do so?
Israel repeatedly incurred God’s wrath because they did what said not to do, failed to do what He told them to do, and operated continually on the basis of their own judgment about what would or would not be good and helpful. Why should anyone believe what you say regarding Mary when you operate similarly? Where is the command? Where is the clear indication that we should do as you want and yourself do?
And you wonder why you fail to convince?
If God says it, it is so. Plain and simple. Where does God say, “Venerate Mary”? Where does God say, “Call upon Mary as mediator”? Where does God even faintly indicate such to me, to the church at large?
Finally, when Jesus teaches us plainly on the very night He was betrayed that we can and should call upon the Father directly, and that we will be heard for His sake and in His name, (John 16:23-30), why do you tell us to do differently? Answer this simple question.
Let me comment on the latter part first, as it reflects a generally constipated Protestant mentality. Why should it be a desire, let alone requirement, to strip from Christian worship anything that is not "necessary"? I agree that anything heretical should be shunned, but like with any celebration authentic Christian worship is rich, and should include veneration of Christ's saints, art, pageantry, -- anythign your heart asks it should receive.
Now, Mass is mandated by Christ in Luke 22:19 ("do this"). It is further clarified as "showing the death" (and therefore sacrifice) of Christ (1 Cor 11:26). The Church is, of course encouraging penance at all times and the Penitential Rite is an organic part of the Mass, but it is the redemptive sacrifice of Christ that is celebrated at Mass (1 Cor 5:7-8, John 6:52).
If anything is necessary the Mass is necessary.
That "we" is most often me and the Blessed Virgin Mary. If you keep a different company, it is your loss.
Thank you for your reply.
Today is the Sabbath. A day for worship.
I will contend with you tomorrow.
Annalex wrote:
“That “we” is most often me and the Blessed Virgin Mary. If you keep a different company, it is your loss.”
Good evasion ... but evasion it is.
Annalex wrote:
“Now, Mass is mandated by Christ in Luke 22:19 (”do this”). It is further clarified as “showing the death” (and therefore sacrifice) of Christ (1 Cor 11:26). The Church is, of course encouraging penance at all times and the Penitential Rite is an organic part of the Mass, but it is the redemptive sacrifice of Christ that is celebrated at Mass (1 Cor 5:7-8, John 6:52).”
Yes, it is mandated by Christ. Thus far you are quite correct. But then you twist and add to His words about the Supper being an enduring testimony and remembrance of His atoning death for us, something that He and He alone has completed for the salvation of mankind, and in so doing transmogrify what is purely sacramental, purely gracious forgiveness, into something altogether different and sacrificial, something that, by its very doing, you contend, adds to an imagined treasury of merits. You will no doubt object and point to this or that RC dogmatic statement.
That is the problem.
I do not try to convince, I seek to explain, it is the work of the Holy Spirit to move the heart and mind of the believer and non believer.
God has used many messengers and mediators in His interactions with His children. Jesus is THE mediator for the remission of sins, THE vehicle of grace and THE door to salvation and eternal life.
Jesus’ work was not complete when He ascended into heaven. His mission yes, the work, no. His disciples were to be His emissaries and to them He gave a commission. Mary was the first of His disciples.
Catholics believe that God has used her throughout the history of Christianity. From the very beginning and even now. It is up to one to believe or not believe.
Mary is a stumbling block for many protestants returning home to the Church. She is often the last roadblock to full entrance to Catholicism. Yet, when that hurdle is overcome, those who enter into full communion find peace and joy.
It is rare than one who comes to the Church late in life or after having been a part of a protestant denomination, then leave again. Most who leave are cradle Catholics of little faith or easily doubtful when faced with such vehement opposition such as is found on many of the threads here.
Jesus said many things plainly that were misunderstood by His disciples even unto this day. Did not Jesus also say that He had many other things to tell His apostles but that there was no time? Did He not promise that the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete would remind them and lead them to all truth?
Does not Scripture ensure us that there is much more to God and Jesus that is not written about in Scripture?
The Church has the assurance it needs. These are not arbitrary and flippant doctrines regarding Mary. They are a direct result of attacks on Jesus, His divinity, His humanity and His mission. Each and every teaching on Mary supports and defends the teachings on Jesus.
She is not God, it has never been declared that she is divine. It has never been said that she is anything but what Jesus made her by choosing her as His mother.
Catholics do not limit God to the written word. Scripture is there for our benefit, everything in it inspired and sufficient for our belief that Jesus is Lord.
Annalex wrote:
“Let me comment on the latter part first, as it reflects a generally constipated Protestant mentality. Why should it be a desire, let alone requirement, to strip from Christian worship anything that is not “necessary”? I agree that anything heretical should be shunned, but like with any celebration authentic Christian worship is rich, and should include veneration of Christ’s saints, art, pageantry, — anythign your heart asks it should receive.”
So, if Protestant mentality is “constipated,” as you wrote, that must make Roman Catholic mentality diarrheic, which actually fits in quite well with Isaiah’s comment on the worth of human righteousness before God. (Isaiah 64:6) Your idea of “rich” is to add man-chosen elements that detract from Christ’s completed vicarious atonement and thus from the graciousness of God in sending His own Son to be our Savior. No, I will stick with His poverty alone, for it and it alone makes us rich. (2 Corinthians 8:9)
It is your opinion that what the Church believes and teaches about Mary is unBiblical. There is ample exegesis and theology that says otherwise, that is acceptable to Catholics. This very thread seeks to do just that.
No one who rejects the authority of the Church, in fact declares that there is no such authority sanctioned by God, does not then get to claim that authority for themselves.
The Church does not demand that Catholics pray the rosary, or venerate Mary or any other saint. One need never do any of it to be Catholic. The Church declares that Mary and the saints are role models, intercessors in heaven with God and channels of grace and love. The Church encourages a fellowship with Mary and with the saints. There is something in each of their lives that we can emulate in our own Christian journey.
But, there is only one whom the Church insists that we pray to, only one whom the Church declares to be the Christ, only one that the Church follows and worships and knows to be the font of grace and salvation.
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