Real men find Church too girly

Times of London ^ | January 27, 2010 | Ruth Gledhill

[hiho hiho]

Real men don't like going to church because they don't want to "sing love songs to a man", because the "vicar wears a dress", because they feel like "mongrels on parade at Crufts" and because they want to be waited on by women rather than queue for coffee after the service.

Instead of the usual flowers and statues of the Virgin Mary, they suggest, "How would it go down to decorate with swords, or pictures of knights, or flaming torches?"

"Maybe it's not 'politically correct', but men quite like the attention of women! They also like to be waited on - so long as they are not made to feel guilty. Instead of having to queue for coffee, why not ask some of the women to go round with trays of coffee and biscuits or chocky bars? Coupled with a charming smile, many men would find that very attractive!"

Then there are the hymns, or modern worship songs, themselves.

Quite apart from the sheer embarrassment of having to sing out loud when the tune might go too high or be in an unfamiliar key,

"Jesus, I am so in love with you," or "Beautiful one I love, beautiful one I adore," - many men wouldn't sing that to their wives, let alone another man, the charity advises.

Among the changes recommended by Christian Vision for Men, a member of the Evangelical Alliance, is to use the World Cup to boost falling congregations. The charity wants vicars to erect big screens above the pulpit during this summer’s World Cup in South Africa and even serve beer during games.

The charity, which also recommends subjects as "pornography" are discussed in church men's groups, has also launched two Christian-themed men’s magazines in a further bid to lock into male culture.

[re_nortex]

You only need to look around for a church that suits your needs...

Others have recommendations -- but I'll suggest that the church of Christ is worth considering. Per scripture, women are prohibited from participating during the worship service. The preacher typically wears a suit (as opposed to vestments). The honorific is a simple ``Mister'' not ``Reverend'' or ``Pastor''.

And the music is very traditional, almost militaristic (think ``Onward Christian Soldiers'', ``A Mighty Fortress'' and ``To the Work''). I've heard very little (if any) of the sappy, self-centered femenized songs at church of Christ. The harmony of the acapella singing (led by a song leader) is inspiring.

The church of Christ is particularly strong (in numbers) in solid, all-American, conservative communities such as Lubbock, TX, Franklin, TN, Cullman, AL, Harrison, AR and Moore, OK to name but a few places I've visited. In short, look for a red county in a red state! :-) During the height of the 2008 campaign season, I never saw an Obama bumper sticker on a car in a parking lot of a church of Christ but plenty of trucks with gun racks! YMMV.

ACTS 2:38

[greatdefender]

[BenKenobi]

“Others have recommendations — but I’ll suggest that the church of Christ is worth considering. Per scripture, women are prohibited from participating during the worship service.”

Agree.

“The preacher typically wears a suit (as opposed to vestments). The honorific is a simple ``Mister’’ not ``Reverend’’ or ``Pastor”

Gravely disagree. The vestments are only seen as ‘unmanly’ by people who don’t understand their history. I would sooner take a priest with the honorifics, than a pastor in his suit. What’s he trying to pretend anyways?

“And the music is very traditional, almost militaristic (think ``Onward Christian Soldiers’’, ``A Mighty Fortress’’ and ``To the Work’’). I’ve heard very little (if any) of the sappy, self-centered femenized songs at church of Christ. The harmony of the acapella singing (led by a song leader) is inspiring. “

Can’t disagree. I’m surprised given what you’ve said here, why you have such opposition to the vestments. Priests shouldn’t just be some guy grabbed from the back row, there should be something that sets him apart from everyone else, that makes his status readily apparent. This is what the vestments acheive.

[BenKenobi]

“Some women can not stand men being the bosses of themselves at church, protest then leave. It is pretty shocking to some women that they are “excluded” from male created, directed and centered activity. But it is very good for the nurturing the faith of males.”

Or they try to tear down the mens’ stuff. You’d be surprised.

I think your church has hit on a few things. The whole networking aspect is a tremendous boon. You want to encourage young men to go to church, give them an opportunity to work. Church isn’t just about the spiritual, but about the day to day stuff too.

I like what you said about ‘making the boys feel involved in the men’s activities’. This is an important step that I feel youth ministries totally neglect.

[re_nortex]

As an addendum to my prior posting, the church of Christ preaches -- without apology -- that there is an everlasting, literal HELL and that Christ is the ONE WAY to salvation. It has largely been immune from the ``Social Gospel'', perhaps due to many of the preachers getting trained at Harding, David Lipscomb, Abilene Christian and other conservative universities.

And not unlike like the Tea Party, each congregation is an independent entity not under the aegis of a centralized, worldly authority, only Christ.

And there's no gender-neutral poppycock (such as that I heard at a watered-down denominational ``church'' on a business trip to Toronto where the Holy Spirit was consistently referred to as ``she'').

[LucyJo]

There is no greater example of real men on this earth than those whose lives are recorded in the Bible as growing into real men through following the teachings and example of Jesus Christ their Lord.

I’ll take Christ’s definition of real men, and women, over that of anyone whose definition differs from His.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Buster, whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in [Jesus] to stumble, it would be better for him if he had a millstone hung around his neck and cast into the sea.

[onedoug]

Or at least a Conservative synagouge, where you can sit with your wife.

[Nosterrex]

There is always room for one more hypocrite.

[re_nortex]

Priests shouldn’t just be some guy grabbed from the back row, there should be something that sets him apart from everyone else, that makes his status readily apparent. This is what the vestments acheive.

Did Reagan need a crown and scepter? I personally think his status was apparent by his actions and by his words and not by his apparel. :-)

In the church of Christ, there's not a priest, by that name, serving as the worship leader. He (and certainly not she) is generally referred to as a preacher or, occasionally, minister. In most cases, what might be familiar visual cues elsewhere aren't common in church of Christ congregations. Stained glass windows and a darkened sanctuary are atypical. The architectural style of a soaring cathedral is rare as well. In fact, the very term ``sanctuary'' is often displaced by ``auditorium'' or ``worship area''.

I'm by no means an expert on this history of the reformation movement in the US but I think some of the ``plainness'' came from the generally rustic culture of Tennessee and Kentucky where Cain Ridge played a role in the ``Second Great Awakening''.

And given the autonomous nature of each congregation, there may (or may not) be some where the preacher wears more formal attire.

[Nosterrex]

I have to agree that church has become feminized. Having a woman for a priest/pastor is the quickest way to turn a religion into a woman's social club. I have to admit singing hymns about falling in love with a man is gay. It makes me want to barf. There are different ways of expressing love for someone without have to sing romantic love songs as you would sing to your girl friend or wife. A good hymn, such as A Mighty Fortress is far better than singing some syrupy love song. I go to church to hear the Gospel, not some feely, touchy cow slobber.

[married21]

“Beautiful one I love, beautiful one I adore,” -

---

We actually sing that song at the “Life Teen” mass. Gag. I feel like I’m singing a commercial jingle for some air freshener or something. I am not sure how I and my kids are going to get through two years of that when they are in high school and need to go to that mass consistently to get confirmed. The songs are performed rock-style, so I guess they have manly drums, bass and electric guitar that guys might want to hear. But the lyrics are abysmal and do not convey the great truths of the faith, like the traditional hymns. And the choir at that mass is 95% girls with very small voices. Ironically, my DH likes the Life Teen Mass, and it’s me whose skin crawls. So maybe they are succeeding a bit with appealing to men.

[LucyJo]

Don’t know what part of Illinois you call home; but, if you are interested in nondenominational worship, you might want to check out this site. I’m sure there are other similar congregations of the church of Christ in Illinois.

http://salemcoc.com/

Be sure to check out the site navigation menu to the left of the page.

God bless.

[Future Snake Eater]

I know what they mean in this article, but these guys need to get a clue.

First and foremost—they need to READ the Bible. I’m willing to wager a lot of these guys are like me and haven’t really cracked it open to read since Sunday school days. I read through the Gospels again as an adult, and it was a completely different experience. The thing that probably stood out most to me was the constant mischaracterization of Jesus. Paintings portray Him as a big-haired, doe-eyed Bee Gees impersonator. People who don’t know anything about Him talk of His love and compassion and His “teachings” (all in very vague generalities, of course). Jesus—in the Bible—is a no-nonsense, fearless guy. Some of the things He said and where He said them and who He said them to....imagine climbing the podium at the DNC and decrying homosexuality, abortion, and any/all social welfare. You’d be lucky if you escaped alive. Jesus did this consistently for years.

Then, look at the punishment he endured. For an excellent visual reference, see “The Passion of The Christ.” Who can know this stuff and feel that Jesus is wimpy and girly?

Another thing that a lot of people respond to is consequences of our actions. There are many people out there who have been blessed with the actual vision (and sometimes actual experiences) of Hell and Heaven. If you don’t believe that at least some of them are real, then you wouldn’t believe in Heaven and Hell anyway, so it’s not like you’re totally losing people. Lay it out there. “This is what you face, or this is what you COULD have—it’s up to you and which path you wish to walk. Here’s how...” Churches are too often caught up in an almost ethereal mysticism with regards to Scripture.

Some of the best churches I’ve been to do an outstanding job as well of relating Scripture to actual life issues, most notably finances. It was a LONG time before I went to a church that actually taught why you should tithe, and how that can directly impact your well-being.

Biblical literacy, clear consequences, real-life applications. Churches that do this, unapologetically, in a “take it or leave it” fashion will draw plenty of folks. Churches that try to compromise are going to lose them.

[Catsrus]

A real man sits on a church pew - not a bar stool.
A real man will fall on his knees before our Lord and Savior, not brawl on the floor of a dive.
A real man will pray for others, rather than spew hate and curse words.
A real man will be the spiritual head of his household, and not allow the woman to shoulder the burden for the spiritual needs of the family.

Jesus was a real man who willingly suffered horrible abuse and suffering for our sins so that we don’t have to.

How many men are willing to do the same? Or should I ask, how many “real” men?

This article is a cop out.

[sayfer bullets]

Ummmm...you have no idea what you’re talking about here.

The bias toward one’s own experience is understandable, but c’mon.

[csmusaret]

We’re all sinners. Sime, like me, have been worse than others.

You ought to come to our Bible study class. I think you’d like iut.

Church is not a gathering place for the perfect, it’s a hospital for sinners, and we all need the hospital.

Yours’ was the only Christian response I received. My feelings are not in any way anti Christian, anti God, or anti Jesus. They are heartfelt, sincere, and based upon my observations of attendees in a variety of Churches in four states. Most of the people who replied to me should probably spend some time contemplating how Jesus would have responded to my comments. Churchs across this land need more worshipers like you and fewer of the type I am refering to. Sad to say, but I feel you are in the minority.

[Canedawg]

I suppose part two of this abusrd column will address the idea that “real men’ are now joining a different religion, where they can do macho things like behead people, stone women to death and teach their children to hate “infidels”.

[Between the Lines]

To those men who think that church is too girly:

Have you ever asked a man to come to your church? No, not your brother in law or some other relative, but you buddies, your coworkers and your neighbors? Do you invite men on a regular basis?

Do you ever talk of God to other men? No, not the men who go to your church, but again buddies, coworkers and neighbors? Do you talk about God with men on a regular basis?

Do you pray? No, not at church, but alone? Do you pray with your wife and family? No, not at meals, but at other times? Do you pray on a regular basis?

If you answered no to any of these questions it might not be that the church is too girly for you, but that you are too girly for the church. We are called by God to do all of these and a real man doesn't shirk from what God has put before him.

If you answered no to any of these questions you cannot lay the blame on the church for what you will not do yourself.

[LucyJo]

The pattern for being people of God is set and recorded in Scripture. The problems come when men decide they can either ignore it, or improve on it according to their own wisdom.

2 Timothy Chapter 3:

1: This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2: For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3: Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4: Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5: Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6: For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7: Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8: Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9: But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
10: But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
11: Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
12: Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13: But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14: But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15: And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.