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To: HarleyD

“Heck, if I would have been Pastor Bob, I would have simply said Mary could not have been sinless for scripture clearly teaches that ALL have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. And Mary rejoiced in her need for a savior.”

Yes, all have sinned. Does this include Christ?

Is Paul talking about Christ when he says all have sinned and fallen short? Clearly, all, means everyone does it not?

As for Mary, what of the phrase, “blessed art thou amongst women?” Yes, Mary rejoiced in her saviour because it was Christ himself who chose her and redeemed her from sin even at her conception, preserving her from sin for all time.


69 posted on 02/15/2010 2:34:35 PM PST by BenKenobi (;)
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To: BenKenobi

“The scriptures you refer to were never intended to become a prayer to Mary.”

According to whom? You? Why should we trust your interpretation on the matter? The church fathers interpreted these phrases in the same manner, to acknowledge that Mary was blessed among all women, by Christ and the father for His purposes.

“The church and the saints are pretty clearly Biblically defined AND well before the RCC came into existence too.”

When did the RCC come into existence?

“BTW vicar means substitute, do you really think anyone can possibly be a substitute for Jesus?”

Vicar is simply a representative. Just as the centurion said, I command my servant and it is done. This is how it is with Christ and his servents. They are the vicars of Christ in that he works through them to accomplish his works here on earth.

“The Bible does not change but the RCC as well as most every mainline christian denomination changes with the culture. Is that not how some liberal sects suceeded in deciding it’s OK to be homosexual?”

And how has the RCC changed? Which is your denomination, if I may inquire which has not changed at all?

“You either read, revere and follow the Bible yourself, or you blindly let others do it for you. And consequently allow yourselves to be misled on any/all doctrines.”

Yet, the scripture you hold in your hands today was written by St. Jerome, who is a Catholic saint. How can you elevate the book and ignore the Church which commissioned the work?

You are aware that the bible did not exist in the time of Christ. How then can we rely on the bible by itself?


71 posted on 02/15/2010 2:40:08 PM PST by BenKenobi (;)
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To: BenKenobi
Yes, all have sinned. Does this include Christ?

No, the text is clear that Paul set our Lord Jesus apart from the rest of mankind:

"For all who believe" and "all have sinned" are connected. The righteousness of God does not include Mary.

As for Mary, what of the phrase, “blessed art thou amongst women?”

It isn't bearing the Lord Jesus that made Mary blessed. Certainly it was a great honor. However, it is the fact that they who take refuse in the Lord is blessed. Not to minimize her role, but Mary isn't even listed in the Hebrews roll call of faith.

Yes, Mary rejoiced in her saviour because it was Christ himself who chose her and redeemed her from sin even at her conception, preserving her from sin for all time.

This is a fairy tale. There is no scriptural evidence for any of this. If God could redeemed Mary from her sin and preserve her from sin from all time, why on earth couldn't He do that for everyone? God shows no partiality.

80 posted on 02/15/2010 5:08:41 PM PST by HarleyD
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