Posted on 02/12/2010 2:03:10 PM PST by Graybeard58
VATICAN CITY -- Pope John Paul II whipped himself with a belt, even on vacation, and slept on the floor as acts of penitence and to bring him closer to Christian perfection, according to a new book by the Polish prelate spearheading his sainthood case.
The book "Why He's a Saint" also includes previously unpublished speeches and documents written by John Paul, including one 1989 signed memo in which he said he would resign if he became incapacitated.
The book also reported for the first time that John Paul forgave his would-be assassin in the ambulance on the way to the hospital moments after he was shot on May 13, 1981, in St. Peter's Square. And it reported that he initially thought his attacker was a member of the Italian terrorist organization the Red Brigades.
The book was written by Monsignor Slawomir Oder, the postulator, or main promoter, for John Paul's canonization cause and was released Tuesday. It was based on the testimony of the 114 witnesses and boxes of documentation Oder gathered on John Paul's life to support the case.
At a news conference Tuesday, Oder defended John Paul's practice of self-mortification, which some faithful use to remind them of the suffering of Jesus on the cross.
"It's an instrument of Christian perfection," Oder said, responding to questions about how such a practice could be condoned considering Catholic teaching holds that the human body is a gift from God.
In the book, Oder wrote that John Paul frequently denied himself food -- especially during the holy season of Lent -- and "frequently spent the night on the bare floor," messing up his bed in the morning so he wouldn't draw attention to his act of penitence.
"But it wasn't limited to this. As some members of his close entourage
(Excerpt) Read more at suntimes.com ...
Did you ever notice that the Left practices the same religion?
Is it any wonder then why so many Romanists are in league with the Left? While the object of their devotion may be split they don’t need to change the practice. Whether at any given time they may be directing their practice towards God or the State it’s all underwritten by the same false piety.
Great scripture ...also your body is not your own to abuse, it is the temple of the Holy Spirit (if you are saved)
Could you show me in that list of scriptures where the apostles inflicted pain on themselves to make themselves humble? Or make themselves approved to God? Or where they taught the church that they should do that ?
Luke 23: 23 Then he said to all, "If anyone wishes to come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily 11 and follow me. 24 For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will save it.
This taking up of the cross is the voluntary acceptance of pain in the service of God.
2 Corinthians 4: 7 We are afflicted in every way, but not constrained; perplexed, but not driven to despair; 9 persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed; 10 8 always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our body. 11 For we who live are constantly being given up to death for the sake of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may be manifested in our mortal flesh. 12 9 So death is at work in us, but life in you.
Paul is talking about the mortification of the flesh by Christians.
Romans 8: 12 Consequently, brothers, we are not debtors to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die, but if by the spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
Same thing. Now does that mean that mortification is always specifically physically done? No. The early Apostles looked more on fasting and other deprivations, but did not spurn physical mortification as well.
Scriptures like this one by Paul are about the persecution they endured and his imprisonment. .
"2 Corinthians 4: 7 We are afflicted in every way, but not constrained; perplexed, but not driven to despair; 9 persecuted, but not abandoned; struck down, but not destroyed; 10 8 always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our body. 11 For we who live are constantly being given up to death for the sake of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may be manifested in our mortal flesh. 12 9 So death is at work in us, but life in you."
Why do you think Jesus was flogged and hung on a cross?
And just to be clear, “Self-styled ritual, self-styled mysticism, and self-styled poverty for the sake of apparent piety and holiness” is not what John Paul II was doing; he ‘”frequently spent the night on the bare floor,” messing up his bed in the morning so he wouldn’t draw attention to his act of penitence.’
Excuse me, but why are we discussing him in public then? How did it leak out?
"The book was written by Monsignor Slawomir Oder, the postulator, or main promoter, for John Paul's canonization cause and was released Tuesday. It was based on the testimony of the 114 witnesses and boxes of documentation Oder gathered on John Paul's life to support the case."
This verse is, yes. As I mentioned before, most of the self mortification came in the form of fasting and privation. The hermits and so on came out of this. Yet there was a subset of personal mortification that came out in the form of self punishment, that evolved from the fasting and privations and sackcloth and ashes mindset. Another was the development of martyr complex, another form of self mortification. At certain periods, there were more Christians ready to be martyred than there were lions to feed them to.
Self injury or self flagellation was a pagan practice. It was not practiced by the early Christian church. We do not believe the flesh is evil or that beating it brings it under submission . Scripture tells us our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit..
Not in your interpretation of it.
Another false statement about the Catholic Church from RnMomof7.
As Satan wills.
Self mortification does not please men. Unless you mean the masochists, who are not normally considered religious mystics.
Self injury or self flagellation was a pagan practice. It was not practiced by the early Christian church. We do not believe the flesh is evil or that beating it brings it under submission . Scripture tells us our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit..
The term "mortification of the flesh" comes from Saint Paul in this quote: "For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live".[1] The same idea is seen in the following verses: "Put to death what is earthly in you: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry".[2] "And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires".[3]
According to Christian exegesis, "deeds of the body" and "what is earthly", refer to the "wounded nature" of man or his concupiscence, evil inclinations due to forming part of the Fall of Man - humanity that suffered the consequences of the original sin.
Thus, Jesus expected believers to repent from slavery to their fleshes' desires: "Woe to you, Korazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes".
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortification_of_the_flesh.
Examples from the OT of mortification include Isaiah 22:12 The Lord, the LORD Almighty, called you on that day to weep and wail, to tear out your hair and put on sackcloth. But see, there is joy and revelry, slaughtering of cattle and killing of sheep, eating of meat and drinking of wine! "Let us eat and drink," you say, "for tomorrow we die!" The LORD Almighty has revealed this in my hearing: "Till your dying day this sin will not be atoned for," says the Lord, the LORD Almighty."
Pulling out one's hair is a form of mortification.
I have spent some time thinking about this and it isn't any wonder to me why so many Catholics are in league with the Left. It's the major faith that tolerates little sin on paper but MUCH in practice. The safest faith for a liberal to claim is Catholicism. They can claim all the piety and status of being an upstanding Christian in a major faith, while publicly holding and fighting for any anti-Christian view they wish with zero repercussions.
Amen to that too!
Sure it does..it makes them feel that they can suffer for their own sin, pay for it themselves.. They think this is somehow pleasing to God and they like to commend themselves to God ..it is another "work" of the flesh.
To God it is just another menstrual (filthy )rag...unclean and substituting for the work of Christ
The term "mortification of the flesh" comes from Saint Paul in this quote:"For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live".[1] The same idea is seen in the following verses: "Put to death what is earthly in you: fornication, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry".[2] "And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires".[3]
For if you live according to the flesh, you shall die: but if by the Spirit you mortify the deeds of the flesh, you shall live.
That says the deeds NOT THE FLESH
That is a significant difference...The word translated " mortify.". is thanatoute..meaning TO KILL (think of mortuary ) This scripture is not talking about self flagellation. It is talking about puting to death the sinful deeds of the flesh
There is NO scripture telling men that they should abuse their bodies .. they are told to repent and turn from their sin.. Maybe the pope should have done that instead of beating his body .
Now consider the Left. They too hold to a surface level piety of being upstanding citizens for holding to such things as: political correctness, environmentalism, affirmative action, income redistribution, and other assortments of nannyism to absolve their guilt but yet expect no repercussions for enriching themselves on the thing they feel is evil, capitalism.
And self flagellation is not one of those acts?
No it is punishing yourself for sin and robbing Christ of His glory
The Flagellant movement did not arise until the 1200s, but there were always elements in the early Church. Some of the practices came from the OT extravagance of penance such as:
Ezra 9:[3] When I heard this, I rent my garments and my mantle, and pulled hair from my head and beard, and sat appalled. [4] Then all who trembled at the words of the God of Israel, because of the faithlessness of the returned exiles, gathered round me while I sat appalled until the evening sacrifice. [5] And at the evening sacrifice I rose from my fasting, with my garments and my mantle rent, and fell upon my knees and spread out my hands to the LORD my God, [6] saying: "O my God, I am ashamed and blush to lift my face to thee, my God, for our iniquities have risen higher than our heads, and our guilt has mounted up to the heavens. [7] From the days of our fathers to this day we have been in great guilt; and for our iniquities we, our kings, and our priests have been given into the hand of the kings of the lands, to the sword, to captivity, to plundering, and to utter shame, as at this day.
Jeremiah 41:5 eighty men arrived from Shechem and Shiloh and Sama'ria, with their beards shaved and their clothes torn, and their bodies gashed, bringing cereal offerings and incense to present at the temple of the LORD.
1 Corinthians 9:27 but I pommel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified.
[cf. NIV, Beck: "beat"; NEB: "bruise"; Williams: "beating and bruising"; Barclay: "batter"; NASB: "buffet"; NRSV: "punish"; NKJV: "discipline"; Wuest: "I beat my body black and blue and make it my abject slave"; Amplified: "I buffet my body -- handle it roughly, discipline it by hardships -- and subdue it"; Goodspeed: "I beat and bruise my body and make it my slave"; Moffatt: "I maul and master my body"
from http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2010/02/biblical-evidence-for-penitential.html
Now, it is not and never has been the doctrine of the Church that one must inflict deliberate injuries, but rather in the manner of fasting and penitance that one should act.
The problem is the church keeps making saints of people that did it
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