Kimball on Boy Scouts, Vernon Romney and Ezra Taft Benson

Salt Lake Tribune ^ | Jan. 28, 2010

[Colofornian]

» In July 1974, the NAACP filed a suit against the Boy Scouts of America on the grounds that in LDS troops ... the deacons quorum president was automatically the patrol leader, meaning that an African-American Scout could not gain patrol leader experience. When the church realized the inappropriateness of such restriction ... it dropped the policy and the court dismissed the suit. President [Spencer] Kimball had been subpoenaed to appear for deposition and bring "all church records and writings concerning the policy and position of the church regarding blacks." He felt greatly relieved at avoiding that burden and the inevitable adverse publicity.

» Early in 1974, Utah Attorney General Vernon Romney, [Kimball's wife] Camilla's first cousin, consulted Spencer about whether to run for governor, as he was then inclined, or for the U.S. Senate. Spencer had contributed $200 to Romney's campaign for attorney general, so he saw Spencer as a friendly adviser. When Romney posed this question, Spencer said with his usual directness, "I can't tell you what choice to make, but I will kneel down and pray with you."

» In February 1980, Elder [Ezra Taft] Benson gave a talk at BYU titled "Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet" that emphasized the precedence of living prophet's statements over those of earlier prophets. ... Spencer felt concern about the talk, wanting to protect the church against being misunderstood as espousing ultraconservative politics or an unthinking "follow the leader" mentality. The First Presidency called Elder Benson in to discuss what he had said and asked him to make explanation to the full Quorum of the Twelve [Apostles] and other general authorities. Elder Benson told them that he meant only to "underscore President Kimball's prophetic call."

Source: Lengthen Your Stride: The Presidency of Spencer W. Kimball -- Working Draft

Note: The book, priced at $99.95, is available at Benchmark Books, 3269 S. Main, Suite 250.

[Colofornian]

NOTE: This is a sidebar article...so if you click on the link, be sure to scroll down to the sidebar.

From the article: When the church realized the inappropriateness of such restriction ... it dropped the policy and the court dismissed the suit.

Say what? "When the church realized the inappropriateness of such restriction??? You mean to tell us that in early 1974 and before, the Mormon Church didn't "realize" that keeping the Boy Scout "patrol leader" position out of the hands of African-Americans pre-empted African Americans from gaining patrol leader experience? You mean it took a lawsuit to click some light bulb on about that process?

From the article: Elder [Ezra Taft] Benson gave a talk at BYU titled "Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet" that emphasized the precedence of living prophet's statements over those of earlier prophets. ... Spencer felt concern about the talk, wanting to protect the church against being misunderstood as espousing ultraconservative politics or an unthinking "follow the leader" mentality.

What were Benson's 14 fundies? [My commentary for each follows]

1. The prophet is the only man who speaks for the Lord in everything. (Except when it later becomes too embarrassing for the church; like polygamy is celestial marriage or that Brigham Young taught for over 25 years that "Adam is God")

2. The living prophet is more vital to us than the standard works. (Translation: Since living 'prophets' contradict what's in the Book of Mormon & the Bible, we'll ignore the Book of Mormon & the Bible when needs be)

3. The living prophet is more important to us than a dead prophet. (See comment for #2)

4. The prophet will never lead the church astray. (Well, except for the Mormon "jesus," who Joseph Smith said never kept a church together like Smith did, rendering Matthew 16:18 as some sort of "false prophecy")

5. The prophet is not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time. (Ya hear that Mitt Romney?)

6. The prophet does not have to say “Thus Saith the Lord,” to give us scripture. (Except again if it's embarrassing to later Mormons...then grassroots Mormons will point out that instead of being a living 'scripture'-producing factory, well, you're 'only human and fallible,' after all)

7. The prophet tells us what we need to know, not always what we want to know. (Well Kimball was right to be concerned -- more of what Lds leaders had been saying in the late 1940s along the lines of "When the prophet speaks, the thinking has been done" mentality!)

8. The prophet is not limited by men’s reasoning. (We noticed)

9. The prophet can receive revelation on any matter, temporal or spiritual. (Still listening, Mitt?)

10. The prophet may advise on civic matters. (What say ye Mitt?)

11. The two groups who have the greatest difficulty in following the prophet are the proud who are learned and the proud who are rich. (How 'Profitic')

12. The prophet will not necessarily be popular with the world or the worldly. (Is that why it took several Lds 'prophets' so long to overturn polygamy and many more than that to overturn skin-barring priestholder positioning in the Lds church? Just because they wanted to prove their social unpopularity???)

13. The prophet and his counselors make up the First Presidency—the highest quorum in the Church. (So much for being a "true restoration" of the original church, which had no titled "counselors" or "first presidency")

14. The prophet and the presidency—the living prophet and the First Presidency—follow them and be blessed—reject them and suffer. (Ever notice how lock step Lds "prophets" are "sustained" minus no dissenting votes?)

(Address given Tuesday, February 26, 1980 at Brigham Young University)

[Godzilla]

And yet it was still another 4 years before the prophet realized that blacks should not be denied the priesthood, not before another lawsuit was pending against lds llc. It has been 32 years and lds llc has still to apologize for its racial policies and the ‘scriptures’ it based them upon are still their doctrine.

[Burkean]

This is an exciting find, thanks for posting it. Kimball is a pivotal figure in the LDS world and this update by his son of his well thought out biography looks very interesting.

[999replies]

"..was automatically the patrol leader.."

I was not aware that the Boyscouts were running patrol outside the wire. I wonder if Charlie ever got wind of that?

[Colofornian]

Kimball is a pivotal figure in the LDS world and this update by his son of his well thought out biography looks very interesting.

Oh, your welcome; and since you know of the LDS world -- (do you represent it?) -- then we can very well consider these Spencer W. Kimball quotes to be as "representational" as you can get for Mormons & Mormon "prophets," right?

LDS President/"Prophet" Spencer W. Kimball in official LDS periodicals proclaimed:
"Man can transform himself, but he has in him the seeds of Godhood that can grow. He can lift himself by his very bootstraps" (Tribune, Sept. 18, 1974).
"Brethren, 225,000 of you are here tonight. I suppose that 225,000 of you may become gods" ( The Ensign, November 1975, 1980).

[Burkean]

No, I would draw a distinction between the LDS world and the LDS church. I’m talking about the cultural value of the book. People’s cultural understanding of what Kimball said and did is much different than his position in the LDS church. I would certainly place the quotes you cite as important ones in the culture, and likewise it is important to understand the difference between the culture and the church.

[Elsie]

President [Spencer] Kimball had been subpoenaed to appear for deposition and bring "all church records and writings concerning the policy and position of the church regarding blacks."

 

Speaking of black people...

 

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"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind.

The first man that committed the odious crime of killing one of his brethren will be cursed the longest of any one of the children of Adam. Cain slew his brother. Cain might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings.

This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race--that they should be the 'servant of servants', and they will be, until that curse is removed."

Brigham Young-President and second 'Prophet' of the Mormon Church, 1844-1877- Extract from Journal of Discourses.

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Here are two examples from their 'other testament', the Book of Mormon.

  2 Nephi 5: 21    'And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people, the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.'

  Alma 3: 6    'And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.'

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August 27, 1954 in an address at Brigham Young University (BYU), Mormon Elder, Mark E Peterson, in speaking to a convention of teachers of religion at the college level, said:

"The discussion on civil rights, especially over the last 20 years, has drawn some very sharp lines. It has blinded the thinking of some of our own people, I believe. They have allowed their political affiliations to color their thinking to some extent.I think I have read enough to give you an idea of what the Negro is after."

"He is not just seeking the opportunity of sitting down in a cafe where white people eat. He isn't just trying to ride on the same streetcar or the same Pullman car with white people. It isn't that he just desires to go to the same theater as the white people. From this, and other interviews I have read, it appears that the Negro seeks absorption with the white race. He will not be satisfied until he achieves it by intermarriage."

"That is his objective and we must face it. We must not allow our feelings to carry us away, nor must we feel so sorry for Negroes that we will open our arms and embrace them with everything we have. Remember the little statement that we used to say about sin, 'First we pity, then endure, then embrace'...."

(Rosa Parks would have probably told Petersen under which wheel of the bus he should go sit.)

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 1967, (then) Mormon President Ezra Taft Benson said,

"The Communist program for revolution in America has been in progress for many years and is far advanced. First of all, we must not place the blame upon Negroes. They are merely the unfortunate group that has been selected by professional Communist agitators to be used as the primary source of cannon fodder."

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We are told that on June 8, 1978, it was 'revealed' to the then president, Spencer Kimball, that people of color could now gain entry into the priesthood.

According to the church, Kimball spent many long hours petitioning God, begging him to give worthy black people the priesthood. God finally relented.

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Sometime before the 'revelation' came to chief 'Prophet' Spencer Kimball in June 1978, General Authority, Bruce R McConkie had said:

"The Blacks are denied the Priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty.

The Negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain blessings are concerned, particularly the priesthood and the temple blessings that flow there from, but this inequality is not of man's origin, it is the Lord's doings."

(Mormon Doctrine, pp. 526-527).

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When Mormon 'Apostle' Mark E Petersen spoke on 'Race Problems- As they affect the Church' at the BYU campus in 1954, the following was also said:

"...if the negro accepts the gospel with real, sincere faith, and is really converted, to give him the blessings of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost, he can and will enter the celestial kingdom. He will go there as a servant, but he will get celestial glory."

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When Mormon 'Prophet' and second President of the Church, Brigham Young, spoke in 1863 the following was also said:

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God is death on the spot. This will always be so."

(Journal of Discourses, Vo. 10, p. 110)

[Colofornian]

From the article: Kimball had been subpoenaed to appear for deposition and bring "all church records and writings concerning the policy and position of the church regarding blacks.

(Yes, now that's a "bit" of a "revelation" now, isn't it Els?)

[greyfoxx39]

OFFICIAL DECLARATION—2

To Whom It May Concern:

On September 30, 1978, at the 148th Semiannual General Conference of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the following was presented by President N. Eldon Tanner, First Counselor in the First Presidency of the Church:

In early June of this year, the First Presidency announced that a revelation had been received by President Spencer W. Kimball extending priesthood and temple blessings to all worthy male members of the Church. President Kimball has asked that I advise the conference that after he had received this revelation, which came to him after extended meditation and prayer in the sacred rooms of the holy temple, he presented it to his counselors, who accepted it and approved it. It was then presented to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, who unanimously approved it, and was subsequently presented to all other General Authorities, who likewise approved it unanimously.

President Kimball has asked that I now read this letter:

 

June 8, 1978

To all general and local priesthood officers of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints throughout the world:

 

Dear Brethren:

As we have witnessed the expansion of the work of the Lord over the earth, we have been grateful that people of many nations have responded to the message of the restored gospel, and have joined the Church in ever-increasing numbers. This, in turn, has inspired us with a desire to extend to every worthy member of the Church all of the privileges and blessings which the gospel affords.

 

Aware of the promises made by the prophets and presidents of the Church who have preceded us that at some time, in God’s eternal plan, all of our brethren who are worthy may receive the priesthood, and witnessing the faithfulness of those from whom the priesthood has been withheld, we have pleaded long and earnestly in behalf of these, our faithful brethren, spending many hours in the Upper Room of the Temple supplicating the Lord for divine guidance.

 

He has heard our prayers, and by revelation has confirmed that the long-promised day has come when every faithful, worthy man in the Church may receive the holy priesthood, with power to exercise its divine authority, and enjoy with his loved ones every blessing that flows therefrom, including the blessings of the temple. Accordingly, all worthy male members of the Church may be ordained to the priesthood without regard for race or color. Priesthood leaders are instructed to follow the policy of carefully interviewing all candidates for ordination to either the Aaronic or the Melchizedek Priesthood to insure that they meet the established standards for worthiness.

 

We declare with soberness that the Lord has now made known his will for the blessing of all his children throughout the earth who will hearken to the voice of his authorized servants, and prepare themselves to receive every blessing of the gospel.

Sincerely yours,

Spencer W. Kimball
N. Eldon Tanner
Marion G. Romney

The First Presidency

Recognizing Spencer W. Kimball as the prophet, seer, and revelator, and president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it is proposed that we as a constituent assembly accept this revelation as the word and will of the Lord. All in favor please signify by raising your right hand. Any opposed by the same sign.

The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous in the affirmative.

Salt Lake City, Utah, September 30, 1978.

Link

[Vendome]

I am given to understand the people of Tonga are the Lamanites. In the context of this post it seems duplicitous and racist.

[Elsie]

I am given to understand the people of Tonga are the Lamanites.

And yet; THEIR ocean going canoes and catamarans have NO holes in the bottom!

[Vendome]

I kinda sorta get/don’t get the joke?

[Elsie]

THE BOOK OF ETHER

CHAPTER 2

 

The Jaredites prepare for their journey to a promised land—It is a choice land whereon men must serve Christ or be swept off—The Lord talks to the brother of Jared for three hours—They build barges—The Lord asks the brother of Jared to propose how the barges shall be lighted.

 

  1 And it came to pass that Jared and his brother, and their families, and also the ^afriends of Jared and his brother and their families, went down into the valley which was northward, (and the name of the valley was ^bNimrod, being called after the mighty hunter) with their ^cflocks which they had gathered together, male and female, of every kind.

  2 And they did also lay snares and catch ^afowls of the air; and they did also prepare a vessel, in which they did carry with them the fish of the waters.

  3 And they did also carry with them deseret, which, by interpretation, is a honey bee; and thus they did carry with them ^aswarms of bees, and all manner of that which was upon the face of the land, ^bseeds of every kind.

  4 And it came to pass that when they had come down into the valley of Nimrod the Lord came down and talked with the brother of Jared; and he was in a ^acloud, and the brother of Jared saw him not.

  5 And it came to pass that the Lord commanded them that they should ^ago forth into the wilderness, yea, into that quarter where there never had man been. And it came to pass that the Lord did go before them, and did talk with them as he stood in a ^bcloud, and gave ^cdirections whither they should travel.

  6 And it came to pass that they did travel in the wilderness, and did ^abuild ^bbarges, in which they did cross many waters, being directed continually by the hand of the Lord.

  7 And the Lord would not suffer that they should stop beyond the sea in the wilderness, but he would that they should come forth even unto the ^aland of promise, which was choice above all other lands, which the Lord God had ^bpreserved for a righteous people.

  8 And he had sworn in his wrath unto the brother of Jared, that whoso should possess this land of promise, from that time henceforth and forever, should ^aserve him, the true and only God, or they should be ^bswept off when the fulness of his wrath should come upon them.

  9 And now, we can behold the decrees of God concerning this land, that it is a land of promise; and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall serve God, or they shall be ^aswept off when the fulness of his ^bwrath shall come upon them. And the fulness of his wrath cometh upon them when they are ^cripened in iniquity.

  10 For behold, this is a land which is choice above all other lands; wherefore he that doth possess it shall serve God or shall be ^aswept off; for it is the everlasting decree of God. And it is not until the ^bfulness of iniquity among the children of the land, that they are ^cswept off.

  11 And this cometh unto you, O ye ^aGentiles, that ye may know the decrees of God—that ye may repent, and not continue in your iniquities until the fulness come, that ye may not bring down the fulness of the ^bwrath of God upon you as the inhabitants of the land have hitherto done.

  12 Behold, this is a choice land, and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall be ^afree from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but ^bserve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ, who hath been manifested by the things which we have written.

  13 And now I proceed with my record; for behold, it came to pass that the Lord did bring Jared and his brethren forth even to that great sea which divideth the lands. And as they came to the sea they pitched their tents; and they called the name of the place ^aMoriancumer; and they dwelt in ^btents, and dwelt in tents upon the seashore for the space of four years.

  14 And it came to pass at the end of four years that the Lord came again unto the brother of Jared, and stood in a cloud and ^atalked with him. And for the space of three hours did the Lord talk with the brother of Jared, and ^bchastened him because he remembered not to ^ccall upon the name of the Lord.

  15 And the brother of Jared repented of the evil which he had done, and did call upon the name of the Lord for his brethren who were with him. And the Lord said unto him: I will forgive thee and thy brethren of their sins; but thou shalt not sin any more, for ye shall remember that my ^aSpirit will not always ^bstrive with man; wherefore, if ye will sin until ye are fully ripe ye shall be cut off from the presence of the Lord. And these are my ^cthoughts upon the land which I shall give you for your inheritance; for it shall be a land ^dchoice above all other lands.

  16 And the Lord said: Go to work and build, after the manner of ^abarges which ye have hitherto built. And it came to pass that the brother of Jared did go to work, and also his brethren, and built barges after the manner which they had built, according to the ^binstructions of the Lord. And they were small, and they were light upon the water, even like unto the lightness of a fowl upon the water.

  17 And they were built after a manner that they were exceedingly ^atight, even that they would hold water like unto a dish; and the bottom thereof was tight like unto a dish; and the sides thereof were tight like unto a dish; and the ends thereof were peaked; and the top thereof was tight like unto a dish; and the length thereof was the length of a tree; and the door thereof, when it was shut, was tight like unto a dish.

  18 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared cried unto the Lord, saying: O Lord, I have performed the work which thou hast commanded me, and I have made the barges according as thou hast directed me.

  19 And behold, O Lord, in them there is no light; whither shall we steer? And also we shall perish, for in them we cannot breathe, save it is the air which is in them; therefore we shall perish.

  20 And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.

  21 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared did so, according as the Lord had commanded.

  22 And he cried again unto the Lord saying: O Lord, behold I have done even as thou hast commanded me; and I have prepared the vessels for my people, and behold there is no light in them. Behold, O Lord, wilt thou suffer that we shall cross this great water in darkness?

  23 And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: What will ye that I should do that ye may have light in your vessels? For behold, ye cannot have ^awindows, for they will be dashed in pieces; neither shall ye take fire with you, for ye shall not go by the light of fire.

  24 For behold, ye shall be as a ^awhale in the midst of the sea; for the mountain waves shall dash upon you. Nevertheless, I will bring you up again out of the depths of the sea; for the ^bwinds have gone forth ^cout of my mouth, and also the ^drains and the floods have I sent forth.

  25 And behold, I prepare you against these things; for ye cannot cross this great deep save I prepare you against the waves of the sea, and the winds which have gone forth, and the floods which shall come. Therefore what will ye that I should prepare for you that ye may have light when ye are swallowed up in the depths of the sea?

 

The Official Scriptures of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints © 2006 Intellectual Reserve, Inc. All rights reserved. Rights and use information. Privacy policy.

[Elsie]

You get to read Chapter 3 on your own... ;^)

[Vendome]

The Book of Ether Should be a GAS.

Weird contra of Ester.

[Elsie]

Someone was SNIFFING gas when they thought it up!

[Elsie]

...by revelation has confirmed that the long-promised day has come when every faithful, worthy man in the Church may receive the holy priesthood...

Sorry ladies - you get to keep having kids!

[Vendome]

What is with building a semi submersible? It isn’t even logical.

What is with windows on the ship or what eventually becomes eight, light as a bird and tight as a dish ships? I presume this story takes place a few thousand years ago, so there would be no such thing as windows.

God spake or spoke or chided Jared for 3 hours? Was there a concept of hours in their day?

And what is with this Valley of Nimrod? Sounds like a familiar name... Thinking, thinking. /s

Chapter one is a composite of the Tower of Babylon, Confounded by perfunctory condfoundedness of contrivances!

Nephites? Was the neophyte in use then?
Etymology: “new convert,” c.1550, from L.L. neophytus, from Gk. neophytos, lit. “newly planted,” from neos “new” + -phytos “planted,” verbal adj. of phyein “cause to grow, beget, plant.” Church sense is from I Tim. iii.6. Rare before 19c. General sense of “one who is new to any subject” is first recorded 1599.

Well that is just interesting.

Ether 3:25 And when the Lord had said these words, he ashowed unto the brother of Jared ball the inhabitants of the earth which had been, and also all that would be; and he cwithheld them not from his sight, even unto the ends of the earth. Uhm, okay and for what purpose did God choose to play Christmas Past and Christmas future? There is no follow up or reason given for why God would do this for the brother of Jared.

Why is Moroni referred to as a distant character or brother of Jared? Wouldn’t the story be simpler and more direct to say
“And the Lord commanded “Moroni” to go down out of the mount from the presence of the Lord, and write the things which he had seen; and they were forbidden to come unto the children of men cuntil after that he should be lifted up upon the cross; and for this cause did king Mosiah keep them, that they should not come unto the world until after Christ should show himself unto his people”.

I mean what is this? the story of the burning bush and some guy with tablets. It sounds familiar. But these guys were on the mount Shelem? Well Shazam and Shalom for Baruk atah Adonai....

Where is Mount Shelem anyway. Never heard of it.

I am in the 4th chapter and so far the story skips from the first person to third person narratives.

Ether 3:16 And then shall my revelations which I have caused to be written by my servant John be unfolded in the eyes of all the people. Remember, when ye see these things, ye shall know that the time is at hand that they shall be made manifest in very deed.

Wow, end times indeed.

Matthew 24:5 “For many will come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and will mislead many.”

Matthew 24:11 “And many false prophets will arise, and will mislead many.”

Odd?

[Vendome]

What is this? Really? I am suppose to read this with amazement and not even make the connection of plagiarism?

Give me a break.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2440234/posts?page=18#18

[reaganaut]

And we have a winner! I think part of the reason why so many people accept the Book of Mormon at face value because one of “selling points” the missionaries give is that it has a “familiar spirit”, nevermind what the Bible says about “famililar spirits”.

The Book of Mormon sounds familiar to people who have very little knowledge of the Bible.