Posted on 01/23/2010 7:05:43 AM PST by Gamecock
The doctrine of a pre-tribulational rapture is not clearly taught anywhere in the scriptures, but is an inference based upon several Dispensational premises: first, that the second coming of Christ is imminent (that is, that there are no prophetic events which must precede it); second, that the “Church Age” is a parenthetical part of God's redemptive sign, and that he will one day revert to dealing with his earthly people, the Jews; and third, that the time in which he will deal with these Jews will be a seven-year period known as the Great Tribulation, which is yet to come. so then, if Christ could come back at any time, and yet, there are still at least seven years of tribulation to come in world history, then he must be coming back before those seven years, to take away his Church, so that he can focus again on Israel.
The problems with this teaching are numerous. Most fundamentally, it is built upon the faulty supposition that there are two peoples of God (concerning which, see the previous question, “Is Dispensationalism biblical?); and it is also interesting to note that, according to 2 Thes. 2:1-12, the church's being gathered together to Christ cannot precede the exaltation of the “Son of Perdition,” who, according to Dispensational teaching is the antichrist, that will exalt himself in the new Jewish temple at the midpoint of the tribulation; so, even if one accepts the Dispensational teachings regarding all the events and timing of the seven years of tribulation (which is unwarranted anyway!), the “rapture of the church” cannot come before three and a half years of the tribulation, at least.
Basically, all of the intricate chronologies of the rapture and events of the tribulation are not found in scriptures, but mandated by the false presupposition that the Church and Israel are two distinct peoples of God, and that, since God is not fulfilling his promises to Israel in the present age, he must be planning on doing it later, after he has removed the Church. But in contradiction to this philosophically-derived schematic, the bible often speaks of the second coming of Christ as an event that no one can know the precise timing of, but may recognize signs of its approaching (Mat. 24:32-42; 1 Thes. 5:1-6); and that will involve contemporaneously the resurrection and judging of both the wicked and righteous, the creation of the new heavens and earth, etc. (Mat. 24:29-31; 25:31-46; John 5:25-29; 2 Thes. 1:6-10; 1 Cor. 15:23-26, 51-58).
Fascinating! I had wondered myself about that bit of Israel not being peaceful and unsuspecting. However, I do have a question about Isaiah 17: many scholars believe the destruction of Damascus was fulfilled by the Assyrians (II Kings 16:5-8). When verse 4 says that "the glory of Jacob shall be made thin and the fatness of his flesh shall wax lean", that surely sounds like speaking of the destruction of the Northern Kingdom.
Isn't prophecy fascinating? To those naysayers that claim that we are not supposed to know the day or the hour, so it is wrong to estudy prophecy and try to learn as much as possible from it, I want to remind them that Jesus Himself told us to study the signs of the seasons. Maybe we can know the season, without knowing the day or the time! And, if God did not intend for us to have such information, why would the Holy Spirit put it in Scripture?
A lot of great arguements for pre, mid and post -trib. here...
I think the WHOLE point is:
Be ready -NOW. Live it -NOW.
;~)
Take it or leave it . . . what happened, happened. The facts speak for themselves. Jesus is coming soon!
Check out Joel 2:28-31
Christianity should not be centered upon nightmares of ending the world, but instead should be centered upon the good work needed to make the world a better place.
I believe, since Israel has been a nation (1948), they have never trully been at peace and will not until Jesus comes. However there society has been lulled into sense of peace in a lot of ways. 1973 seems a long time ago for the younger generation of Israelis.
I won’t argue - I too firmly believe Christ’s return is very close. And I won’t argue that the hearing device picked up some stray signal of some sort. Just hard to believe that God would choose to communicate in such a manner.
But whatever -
WRONG! Christianity should be centered upon fulfilling the Great Comission, i.e. telling people the good news about Jesus, including the fact that He's coming back! The good works are a natural consequence of accepting Jesus as Savior and Lord.
Jesus said, "If anyone has ears, hear." Some choose not to listen.
Actually no, Christianity is centered on the Kingdom of our God and of His Christ.
Without loving the Lord with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength, we cannot love our neighbors as ourselves.
One comes before, even as it is simultaneous to the other.
Social work, put before love and worship of God, is, and always has been, a failure.
I've been tested by folks in the church regarding these issues and say that I am still studying the scriptures, having not made up my mind. Rather than being loving with the scriptures, folks are insistent and even pestering about it.
All I can say is that I can't wait to see Christ face to face and be fully known. The joy of His love is enough for me and to share with all who will listen about what He has done on the Cross for folks like us.
To be excluded from the kindness of fellowship for not taking a position on Preterism or Rapture is grievous to me.
“interpreted by a select Reformed magisterium?”
It might come as a surprise to learn that they have declared that we are not Christian by their system of interpretation.
You write as those Christ and good works were in conflict: they are not.
My contention was that an obsession with ending the world is incompatible with a focus on good works to improve a world expected to be ongoing for a long time.
1Thes. 1:10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.
1Thes. 5:9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Rev. 3:10 Because you have kept My command to perservere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world to test those who dwell on the earth.
The Tribulation is for Israel not for us.
Just putting it out there that the Greek word “coming” (parousia) used almost exclusively in the New Testament verses describing the Lord’s 2nd Advent - is a present tense, singular noun. One return, one coming, one event.
Just something I’ve seen over the years.
I tried contacting Hendryx about this blind-spot once.
After that experience, I talked to a rock, to see what it was like to feel as if I was being listened to.
Good guy in many ways.
Big blind spot.
I’ll leave it. Your subjective experience may speak for itself but it does not speak for God, unless you think it should be canonized. Scripture speaks for itself and it doesn’t say anything that you claimed.
What was in the message that was not in Scripture.? The Lord said we will know the season, but not the day or time. He also said to prepare because He is coming soon.
The Scriptures also say angelic messages prove true.
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